The board meeting

[PINKIE]

Can I have that welding mask when you have finished with it?
And the FA cup will get you what exactly? Possibly not the players to help you kick on, certainly not the riches, and an extremely challenging playing schedule next year (which Maureen couldnt cope with. And I think he has a stronger squad than you).

What is football about if it's not winning trophies ? People have slated us for years for just finishing in the top 4 and not winning anything, now we've won 3 trophies in 4 years. I'm not saying everything is perfect, far from it, as demonstrated in my response to your comment. You seem to have glossed over all of that and seem happy to dish out soundbites instead. The FA cup isn't the pinnacle of achievement, but I'll take a trophy over top 4 and no trophy any day of the week

 

[PINKIE]

No I said it could turn out to be a curse. If it papers over the ever widening cracks, then your really only going to prolong the inevitable fall from grace.

How would not winning the FA cup made our situation any better ?

 

[lazarus20000]

What is football about if it's not winning trophies ? People have slated us for years for just finishing in the top 4 and not winning anything, now we've won 3 trophies in 4 years. I'm not saying everything is perfect, far from it, as demonstrated in my response to your comment. You seem to have glossed over all of that and seem happy to dish out soundbites instead. The FA cup isn't the pinnacle of achievement, but I'll take a trophy over top 4 and no trophy any day of the week

Funny how you say that, I'm sure Wenger, the man you're so desperately trying to defend, would take top 4 any day of the week. Just in case you've forgotten, he's called top 4 a trophy.

 

[PINKIE]

Funny how you say that, I'm sure Wenger, the man you're so desperately trying to defend, would take top 4 any day of the week. Just in case you've forgotten, he's called top 4 a trophy.

Yeah and I've open in saying that I don't agree with that. Don't confuse what Wenger has said with what I am saying.

 

[pieguts]

What is football about if it's not winning trophies ? People have slated us for years for just finishing in the top 4 and not winning anything, now we've won 3 trophies in 4 years. I'm not saying everything is perfect, far from it, as demonstrated in my response to your comment. You seem to have glossed over all of that and seem happy to dish out soundbites instead. The FA cup isn't the pinnacle of achievement, but I'll take a trophy over top 4 and no trophy any day of the week

Saying it as I and many others see it, is not sound bites, it is the reality. What makes you think I'm glossing over anything? Unfortunately, your own personal footballing success is based on bettering Spurs achievements. Well congratulations in your small world you've managed to do that again this year. For the rest of the countries football fans, that success is meaningless. What would you prefer, a small number of trophies that are generally getting more and more worthless, everytime Sky sign a new deal or year after year of challenging for those top places?

 

[pieguts]

How would not winning the FA cup made our situation any better ?

If you can't answer that yourself, then I'm afraid reality will soon catch up.

 

[PINKIE]

Saying it as I and many others see it, is not sound bites, it is the reality. What makes you think I'm glossing over anything? Unfortunately, your own personal footballing success is based on bettering Spurs achievements. Well congratulations in your small world you've managed to do that again this year. For the rest of the countries football fans, that success is meaningless. What would you prefer, a small number of trophies that are generally getting more and more worthless, everytime Sky sign a new deal or year after year of challenging for those top places?

Your soundbites are 'Rose tinted glasses' etc and you glossed over everything I said about the problems that need addressing at our club.

Of course I'd rather see us challenging for the title, but I'm not going to denigrate us winning a trophy. As a football fan, if you can't appreciate that, then you're in the wrong game imo

 

[PINKIE]

If you can't answer that yourself, then I'm afraid reality will soon catch up.

I can answer it. I'm asking you how not winning the FA cup would have made our situation better ?

 

[pieguts]

I can answer it. I'm asking you how not winning the FA cup would have made our situation better ?

As I said, if you can't see it, I can't make you see it. I have already said why I think it could be a curse. Keep burying you head in the sand I really don't care. I gave an honest response to where I think Arsenals problems lie, if you think differently fine.

 

[PINKIE]

As I said, if you can't see it, I can't make you see it. I have already said why I think it could be a curse. Keep burying you head in the sand I really don't care. I gave an honest response to where I think Arsenals problems lie, if you think differently fine.

I've already spelled out what I think the the problems are and what we should do to address them. Your 'head in the sand' comment demonstrates that you've glossed over that.

My point is that we need to make changes, but not winning the FA cup wouldn't have made that process any better for our club. In fact it's given the players a trophy and a reward for the changes that Wenger made towards the end of the season. If anything that will help them to kick on.

Maybe not all fans value winning trophies, but for me they are what football is all about.

 

[pieguts]

I've already spelled out what I think the the problems are and what we should do to address them. Your 'head in the sand' comment demonstrates that you've glossed over that.

My point is that we need to make changes, but not winning the FA cup wouldn't have made that process any better for our club. In fact it's given the players a trophy and a reward for the changes that Wenger made towards the end of the season. If anything that will help them to kick on.

Maybe not all fans value winning trophies, but for me they are what football is all about.

Again I haven't glossed over anything, I gave an opinion on where I think Arsenal's current predicament lies. In your very first response to that, you went off talking about changes in playing formations, winning 9 out of 11 games and winning the FA cup. All totally irrelevant to the point I was making and if you honestly think that a couple of tweaks to the playing style is all what is required, then yes you are burying your head in the sand.
A gradual decline in your successes would indicate that maybe Wenger's time is coming to an end. The problem as I see it is how do Arsenal FC move forward. It's like having to discard your favourite, most comfortable shoes. You know breaking in the new ones will be uncomfortable for a while, so will try to avoid it at all costs. Winning the FA cup could give them old shoes a reprieve, but will they get you through the winter? At some point you've got to let go.
You do need to get some perspective around the value of the FA cup. Yes, it's a trophy but unfortunately the days of it having any real significance (beyond us old romantics in England) have gone.

Excuse me for being flippant, but in my head the conversation would be some like this;

Wenger to agent - we are interested in signing your player "Carlos Kickabout". We are the holders of the FA cup!
Agent to Wenger - "scuzey", what is this FA cup you talk about. Do you get CL for it?
Wenger to Agent - no sorry, but we do get Europey league for it!
Agent to Wenger - how I get to Tottenham from here?

 

[PINKIE]

Again I haven't glossed over anything, I gave an opinion on where I think Arsenal's current predicament lies. In your very first response to that, you went off talking about changes in playing formations, winning 9 out of 11 games and winning the FA cup. All totally irrelevant to the point I was making and if you honestly think that a couple of tweaks to the playing style is all what is required, then yes you are burying your head in the sand.
A gradual decline in your successes would indicate that maybe Wenger's time is coming to an end. The problem as I see it is how do Arsenal FC move forward. It's like having to discard your favourite, most comfortable shoes. You know breaking in the new ones will be uncomfortable for a while, so will try to avoid it at all costs. Winning the FA cup could give them old shoes a reprieve, but will they get you through the winter? At some point you've got to let go.
You do need to get some perspective around the value of the FA cup. Yes, it's a trophy but unfortunately the days of it having any real significance (beyond us old romantics in England) have gone.

Excuse me for being flippant, but in my head the conversation would be some like this;

Wenger to agent - we are interested in signing your player "Carlos Kickabout". We are the holders of the FA cup!
Agent to Wenger - "scuzey", what is this FA cup you talk about. Do you get CL for it?
Wenger to Agent - no sorry, but we do get Europey league for it!
Agent to Wenger - how I get to Tottenham from here?

The fact that you mention nothing about my comments regarding changing the coaching, conditioning, injury management, negotiations, board members etc, shows exactly how you've glossed over what I was saying.

The comments therefore about 'rose tinted glasses, welding mask, sitting on the fence, burying head in the sand' etc are simply sound bites, because you've chosen to gloss over what I've actually said and instead chosen to guess what you think I've said.

I'm not saying the FA cup is the pinnacle of achievement, far from it. But it is a trophy and trophies are what players and fans want. Claiming that winning it could be a curse, is conplelte wide if the mark imo.

And once again, I have said on numerous occasions that Wenger should be replaced. But the key point is that he shouldn't be shown the door unless and until the club have a suitable replacement lined up. If he signs a two year contract, which looks imminent, then the club should spend the next two years properly scouting for his successor.

 

[pieguts]

The fact that you mention nothing about my comments regarding changing the coaching, conditioning, injury management, negotiations, board members etc, shows exactly how you've glossed over what I was saying.

The comments therefore about 'rose tinted glasses, welding mask, sitting on the fence, burying head in the sand' etc are simply sound bites, because you've chosen to gloss over what I've actually said and instead chosen to guess what you think I've said.

I'm not saying the FA cup is the pinnacle of achievement, far from it. But it is a trophy and trophies are what players and fans want. Claiming that winning it could be a curse, is conplelte wide if the mark imo.

And once again, I have said on numerous occasions that Wenger should be replaced. But the key point is that he shouldn't be shown the door unless and until the club have a suitable replacement lined up. If he signs a two year contract, which looks imminent, then the club should spend the next two years properly scouting for his successor.

How exactly did I gloss over it, I didn't comment on it because for the most part it's true. It was the paragraphs after that that I disagree with. You seem to claim that a few tweaks on the pitch, a few wins under your belt and a shiny trophy, is somehow going to elevate you back up to the top?
You're taking my comment on the FA cup win completely out of context. The point I have now made on a couple of occasions is if this gives Wenger a stay of execution and you go on to finish 6/7/8th over the next couple of seasons, will this FA cup win be worth it? I can't (and frankly don't really care) answer that, that's a question for Arsenal fans. The reality is though, being a London club will be a bigger attraction than winning a cup, when attracting new players. I'm not anti-Wenger, nor anti-Arsenal, I merely contributed to a thread as I see it, looking in.

 

[PINKIE]

You seem to claim that a few tweaks on the pitch, a few wins under your belt and a shiny trophy, is somehow going to elevate you back up to the top?
You're taking my comment on the FA cup win completely out of context. The point I have now made on a couple of occasions is if this gives Wenger a stay of execution and you go on to finish 6/7/8th over the next couple of seasons, will this FA cup win be worth it? I can't (and frankly don't really care) answer that, that's a question for Arsenal fans. The reality is though, being a London club will be a bigger attraction than winning a cup, when attracting new players. I'm not anti-Wenger, nor anti-Arsenal, I merely contributed to a thread as I see it, looking in.

I haven't said that though. Quite the opposite in fact. I've clearly outlined what problems I see at Arsenal and how I think they should be addressed. You seem want to paint a picture where I think winning the FA cup somehow means everything is fine, when in fact I've said th opposite.

I do think winking the cup is a positive, and I do think changing to a 3-4-3 is a postive. If you're going to highlight what's wrong, then you also have to highlight what's right. In no sense do I see winning the FA cup as a curse.

 

[PINKIE]

How exactly did I gloss over it, I didn't comment on it.

Just answered your own question there fella.

 

[pieguts]

Just answered your own question there fella.

No, if I was to gloss over it I would start talking about something alltogether different, which is kind of what you did.
I was and have been nothing but consistent with my replies. You are the one that continually jumps around and mentioned the FA cup as proof the Wenger is changing and everything's rosy.
The "proof is in the pudding" as they say and I will predict that if Wenger is given another two year contract a couple of things will happen;
Fans will be complaining about the real lack of transfer activity, with Wenger trotting out the normal "there's no value in the Market".
Arsenal will struggle to remain in the top 6.

 

[PINKIE]

No, if I was to gloss over it I would start talking about something alltogether different, which is kind of what you did.
I was and have been nothing but consistent with my replies. You are the one that continually jumps around and mentioned the FA cup as proof the Wenger is changing and everything's rosy.
The "proof is in the pudding" as they say and I will predict that if Wenger is given another two year contract a couple of things will happen;
Fans will be complaining about the real lack of transfer activity, with Wenger trotting out the normal "there's no value in the Market".
Arsenal will struggle to remain in the top 6.

Glossing over it means not mentioning it, which is exactly what you did. Instead you chose to narrow in on me saying the FA cup win was a positive and somehow span it into me saying that it would 'propel us to the top' which was the opposite of what I said.

I didn't go off talking about something completely different. I gave a well rounded view of the problems as I see them at Arsenal including the points you initially raised.

What I don't agree with you on is that winning the FA cup could turn out to be a curse.

Anyway, this is going round in circles. I think you've been very selective in the comments you've decided to pick up on of mine, but generally you seem to come across as a decent poster and I often agree with a lot of what you have to say on the politics thread. I've got no desire to turn this into a spat with you. You have your opinion, I have mine. I don't actually think there's a real gulf between them anyway, I'm probably just a bit more optimistic than you.

 

[lazarus20000]

What pieguts is saying is that winning the FA cup won't force the Board/management into making any real changes.

But what are our real goals and targets exactly? What the fans want and what they want seem to be different. I don't expect anything different next season, especially after winning the FA cup. They will probably spin it that this season was a success.

 

[PINKIE]

What pieguts is saying is that winning the FA cup won't force the Board/management into making any real changes.

But what are our real goals and targets exactly? What the fans want and what they want seem to be different. I don't expect anything different next season, especially after winning the FA cup. They will probably spin it that this season was a success.

Disagree with this. Whatever changes (or lack of) are made this summer, I don't think was dependent on whether we won the FA cup or not.

 

[enigma]

Wenger to agent - we are interested in signing your player "Carlos Kickabout". We are the holders of the FA cup!
Agent to Wenger - "scuzey", what is this FA cup you talk about. Do you get CL for it?
Wenger to Agent - no sorry, but we do get Europey league for it!
Agent to Wenger - how I get to Tottenham from here?

I think you are wrong here, if this is the case how did ManU manage to sign pogba, and city signed players like Roninho, i am not even sure if they were in the CL when they signed augeuro. The only thing they care about is money, particularly if they view it as being a one of. It might make it a bit harder, and we may need to offer a bit more wages, but in reality one year out of the CL will make very little difference to who we will be able to sign.