The big question..

[BSG]

I was reading brb's highs and lows thread and something he said struck, he said one of his highs was the early form we showed, especially in August. Now nothing surprising there, we all like to see the Gills win but what struck me was the formation we played during those opening games. It was a 4-5-1 formation with Keds up top on his own, with midfielders supporting him from deep. We didn't score many goals but at least we were winning.

Since then Hess has tried numerous formations 4-4-2, which was touted by many on here, 4-3-3 and a 4-4-2 with a diamond in midfield. All these systems have to a greater or lesser extent not been as successful a the original one up top system. Now it struck me yesterday that we have never really tried to redeploy that formation since September/October despite its obvious suitability to the squad and its success early on. Hands up, I never really considered it before now but the other systems required too many round pegs in square holes, so to go back to 4-5-1 seems like a no-brainer in hindsight, but like Hess and many on here I was duped into thinking more strikers equal more goals therefore more wins.

The benefits of the 4-5-1 are obvious, the ability of two holding midfielders protecting the defence removes the defensive fralities over having an slow but experienced centre back pair, plus allowing the fullbacks to push foward offer width which the team has drastically been lacking all season (which would also play to the strengths of pur more attack minded fullbacks in Martin, Fuller and Fish).

I was wondering what your thoughts on the best formation for the current crop of players is, and considering money may be tight the core group of players for next season.

 

[alwaysright]

BSG
You would think with the number of forwards that we have we should be able to deploy 2 forwards - but - against Daggenham & Oxford Vine & Kedwell were too far apart - with Kedwell spending much time on the left 'wing' area. There were small signs in the 2nd half @ Oxford that Fish was making the sort of runs you've mentioned.
With the type of players that we have had at our disposal, the formation should have been able to change within each game as well as from game to game. A big criticism I have is that our play has been very slow. In recent games we appear to have few ideas going forward - probably because we have been too static - allowing opposing teams to regroup and defend.
I still feel that I prefer a formation that utilises 2 forwards - but they need to be in touch with each other and we need to be quicker in our play.

 

[brb]

First Agreement...
See and this just clearly highlights one of my problems, I am not a tactician! I am pretty good like most fans in deciding who is reasonably good and who is not but I have to leave the tactics with fans such as BSG.

This may go some way to explain my concerns over why Lawrence was getting a load of grief from some fans, when I felt he was ok. It was the tactical change that caused the problem not the player being the problem as such.

Now the problem...
I was only thinking a few days ago that there was a game I went to at Priestfield this season, cannot remember which one but I actually remember feeling we were invincible. Now I thought it was back in August. However, I have since looked back through some of my match reviews and this might throw a spanner in BSG's hard work; v Shrewsbury, August 27th 2012, at the end of our good run, I wrote:

Then the quote...
Shrewsbury managed to convert their 94th minute penalty (Nicky Wroe) and snatch what was a deserved 0-1 victory and those three vital points.

So a second consecutive defeat for a team that Chairman Scally had spent well on pre season to build what should be a good League Two side at the very least. We can get in to discussions about Birchall our new striker being out through a pre season injury, but let’s not have or find these excuses this season.

We showed absolutely no initiative up front today, whilst the likes of Marvin Morgan ran as ragged, we have the likes of Dennis Oli who has had my support and backing many a time but what was he doing today? Luke Rooney it is all well and good keep making those darting little runs but what was the end result, nothing, there is no one up front and the keeper is just going to keep saving those soft punches time and time again.

4-5-1 is not working, drop it Hessy and get yourself another striker in before next Saturday’s Accrington match, don’t panic people may say but that is six points now dropped, we may be counting the cost of this at the end of the season. End quote.

Assumption...
So I believe the reason Hessy might have done away with 4-5-1 could have been after the defeats against Rotherham and Shrewsbury at the end of our good run, might be worth someone looking at to see if that was the case.

 

[BSG]

Cards on table time, I am not a great believer in Cruyff's comment "It doesn't matter how many goals they score as long as you score one more". Total football is simply put not my cup of tea. Great teams are founded on strong defences and cores running through the teams, I guess I am sayng I prefer the Arsenal invinicibles of the early 00's too the "flash Harry" Barca of the 10s, although both have had their successes.

Yes we had some poor results using 4-5-1 but we have had poor results throughout the season. Reading between the lines of your review brb, you state that Morgan run us ragged and yet it took a late penalty to defeat us, and this was a team which have proved to be one of the better ones this season.

I am not saying that employing 4-5-1 and we would have been promoted, as nobody can prove it one way or the other but given that some of our better results have come from using it I don't think it should have been cast aside so easily.

Personally if I was Hess I would employ a 5-3-2 formation given the current crop of players. I am willing to explain further if peeps so wish but I don't want to bore peeps.

 

[brb]

BSG - It actually makes sense a lot of what you have said. One of the problems I am tending to have looking back is remembering the time scale on events during the season, without going and doing a lot of research. However, the Shrewsbury game could have been a completely different outcome as Keds missed a penalty, so you are correct in stating about it took a penalty to beat us. So the bit that really remains unexplained is the 3-0 defeat away at Rotherham just before the Shrews game. We won against Plymouth beforehand 3-0, then the identical team lost that game to Rotherham (albeit due to a dubious throw in decision) but why?

Strangely imo this thread then merges with superbob's thread about Luke Rooney, because Hessy then started each game after that Shrews defeat (I think) with Rooney, then along came Frank Nouble. Then during Nov/Dec we re-found our form and went on an eighth game unbeaten run. During that eigth game against Crawley, Rooney did not come on until just before half-time and he along with Kuffour turned the game around.

The rest as they say in regards to Rooney (also got a red at Crawley) and Nouble became history, along with the Gills season.

So what this says to me is yes I can see what you are saying with the tactics in August but what were the tactics used in Nov/Dec? also was there something within those latter tactics where the likes of Rooney, Nouble and Tomlin could only fill and without them it became what we have now, failure.

 

[vinney]

I thought we were lucky that day against Plymouth. They were at the bottom and struggling yet it took 2 penalties to beat them. It's just been too up and down this year, mainly I think because Hess has not had a good well drilled defence. If you win 1-0 or 2-0 you are more likely to be successful than winning 5-4 one week and losing by the odd goal the next week. I'd rather have those boring games that Pulis's team provided than the topsy turvy one of Hess's.

 

[BSG]

brb - Both Rooney and Nouble offered us some true width in midfield and that allowed for a different system, I assume it was 4-4-2 during Nov/Dec but the ol' gray matter can't be 100% sure. unfortunately once we lost the width we still tried to push players out wide to fill in the gaps (round pegs, square holes), which was less effective. Which kind of answers your question.

I wasn't suggesting that 5-4-1 was the only way to play but more suggesting it was a more natural formation to get the best out of our current squad.

As for the Rotherham game, that was just a mess from start to finish

 

[brb]

brb - Both Rooney and Nouble offered us some true width in midfield and that allowed for a different system, I assume it was 4-4-2 during Nov/Dec but the ol' gray matter can't be 100% sure. unfortunately once we lost the width we still tried to push players out wide to fill in the gaps (round pegs, square holes), which was less effective. Which kind of answers your question.

I wasn't suggesting that 5-4-1 was the only way to play but more suggesting it was a more natural formation to get the best out of our current squad.

As for the Rotherham game, that was just a mess from start to finish

Unfortunately I believe it also identified the true depth of our problems and why I will state that under Hessy we will not get promoted even next season. Hope i am wrong.

vinney commented that we were lucky that day against Plymouth. My first thought was you could say that both ways for many teams, I have even created the luck threads myself. However, vinney has a good point, in truth despite what I may have wrote at the time (bringing out a positive influence), I can clearly remember that day and I did feel the cracks were showing.

Now we can continue to paper over those cracks but I am really pained to say Hessy cannot see what is staring him in the face. I think as the season went on despite the run in Nov/Dec it just hid further cracks. Just a completely personal thought BSG I cannot remember where I saw the comment, it might have been you that mentioned about Rooney and how it could have caused disharmony in the dressing room (not using those exact words). I'm going to keep hush, hush on my thoughts but lets just say those words struck a cord with me and at the time I was closely focusing on Joe Martin.

 

[BSG]

To be honest I think we have / had a squad a players this season which are capable of winning promotion this season, which makes the failure even more grating. Like you I feel the buck stops purely at Hess' door. my main criticism being that he seems to chop and change the starting XI and formation too often implying, to me at least, that he doesn't know the squads strenghts and weaknesses. IF he insisits in playing 4-4-2 or similar the top of the list this summer MUST be a couple of natural wide players, however good wingers in L" is as rare as rocking horse poo.

Interesting what you say (or don't say) regarding Martin, now I am an exile so don't get all the gossip around the club and I have no reason to doubt you, but I don't get the feeling of any disharmony within the squad. Plus considering Martin's old man I doubt Joe would be anything less than a good pro.