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The 2015 Cheltenham Gold Cup

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by OddDog, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    To be fair Nichols is the only one who's been successful at winning big races with old French bred horses, with Kauto Star and Neptune Collonge for instance. Mullins hasn't really proved it either, so it'll be interesting to see how his current group of French stars go over the next few years :biggrin:
     
    #61
  2. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    22 Grade Ones from a French bred whose been on the go on the Flat since a 2yo?! Just finished in front of last season's Champion Hurdler for the 4th consecutive time as an 11year old.. Are ya forgetting anyone by any chance Shergs?!
     
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  3. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    True Beefy <laugh>

    Breeding isn't really something I look into much when looking for winners, so it's not something I'm that knowledgable about. But Hurricane Fly was bred for the flat, rather than bred as a jumper, wouldn't that mean his breeding lines are a lot different to your typical French bred jumper?

    Only asking though, as it's not something I know to much about :biggrin:
     
    #63
  4. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Generally speaking, I would think it's easier to breed a top class hurdler with typical flat pedigree than it would be to breed a top class chaser
     
    #64
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  5. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    The 2015 Cheltenham Gold Cup is already looking like a very good renewal, with a number of subsequent winners already, just 29 days after the race. Silviniaco Conti won the Grade 1 Aintree Bowl, with Holywell a close 3rd, On His Own easily won a Grade 3 at Cork and now Many Clouds wins the Grand National off 160 carryting 11-09 - the highest weight carried to National victory since Red Rum in 1974. I really hope Coneygree can stay sound over the next couple of seasons, he could go down as one of the greats.
     
    #65
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  6. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Many Clouds run yesterday certainly gives the race a form boost. Not sure SC and Holywells efforts boost the form, as they only had each other to beat and where split by Ballynagour who only lost out by a neck. :biggrin:
     
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  7. sportform

    sportform Member

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    Warden Hill, Virak and Saphir Du Rheu, all beaten by Coneygree in the Feltham Chase at Kempton on Boxing Day, have all won in the last week too.
     
    #67
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  8. rudebwoy

    rudebwoy Well-Known Member

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    Because he's trained by some eccentric people, don't think he's been given the credit that performance deserves, it's like they can't believe it's happened.
    Time will show that it's up there with the very best -think Sherwood alluded to it before his horse hosed up on Saturday... Next season promises to be great in the top chasing ranks....
     
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  9. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that he is 8/1 third best for next years Gold Cup, behind 2 novices. So the bookies aren't giving him much respect either.

    I think well get a better idea about how strong the form was when Djakadam and Road To Riches run again. As I'm inclined to believe that Many Clouds and Silviniaco Conti didn't run to there best in the Gold Cup. Silviniaco Conti without doubt doesn't like it round Cheltenham.

    At this stage for next seasons Gold Cup id be inclined to side with Don Poli. I think Vautour has so much class over shorter that he wouldn't get home with Coneygree making the running. Vautour could win it if he was allowed to dictate a slow pace out in front, but his rivals would never be stupid enough to allow that to happen.

    Don Poli looks like a horse that will stay forever, he was even outpaced in the RSA and then picked up impressively in the last couple of furlongs. So off a stronger pace, and an extra couple of furlongs I would side with him. I could just see him having the stamina to stay on past everything towards the end.

    He is knowhere near as classy as Vautour, but the Gold Cup doesn't always play to the strengths of class horses. As Silviniaco Conti has found out :biggrin:
     
    #69
  10. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    As we discovered with Pendil. One of the classiest 3 milers ever.
     
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  11. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    I think Cheltenham in general doesn't play to the strengths of class horses. It quite often brings average horses and class horses closer together.

    Not always but there have been plenty of class horses who have always been well below there best at Cheltenham. Hurricane Fly is a good example of this, as was Kauto Star. Both unbeatable on flat tracks, but vulnerable at Cheltenham:biggrin:
     
    #71
  12. sportform

    sportform Member

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    The same course be said about Epsom and to some extent Newmarket on the flat with the classics. The very best horses though are the ones that can handle the different courses.
     
    #72
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  13. rudebwoy

    rudebwoy Well-Known Member

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    coneygree , won on pancake flat speed track like kempton, and cheltenham which is an altogether different test, indeed the very best can do the lot, no point saying this or that horse is the best unless they have shown they can handle different scenarios --its a cop out otherwise--ground conditions are a different matter.....
     
    #73

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