Tell Me I'm Wrong.

[MackemsRule]

Weren't we linked with N'Zogbia and Baines when they were a lot less money and Bruce's dithering lost them.
My mate reckons we were interested in Bale too, I don't recall that one mind.

I honestly believe £8,000,000 for a "prospect" is too much too, that money could have been better spent on proven left sided players.

 

[blackcatsteve]

Riise went to Fulham, probably wanted European Football which we couldnt give him, but Fulham could (dont know this for certain, but sounds like it)

Warnock, never really been a fan, but hey, he is a left footed left back.

Warnock was widely expected to leave the club in the summer transfer window, with a number of teams reportedly interested in his signature. However, new boss Alex McLeish stated that he was impressed with Warnock's "phenomenal" attitude, and stated he would be given a clean slate, as with other players excluded by Houllier, all but guaranteeing his place in the squad

Honda not sure how he is available, plenty of clubs have went in for him, but he is still with CSKA Moscow.

N`zog from reports broke our wage cap, but i know probably less than you on this one, so that may be bollocks.

Cissokho, dont know much about him, but he is on a 5 year contract which he signed in 2009 and they bought him for €15 million so i doubt he would come cheap, and he also failed a medical with Milan in 2009, but passed one with Lyon.

 

[Disco]

Cissokho, dont know much about him, but he is on a 5 year contract which he signed in 2009 and they bought him for €15 million so i doubt he would come cheap, and he also failed a medical with Milan in 2009, but passed one with Lyon.

After Lyon’s inability to hold a two-goal lead against lowly Nice on Sunday cost them any slim hopes of winning the Ligue 1 title, goalkeeper Hugo Lloris was caught making extremely heated comments by broadcaster Canal Plus shortly after he saved Danijel Ljuboja’s injury-time penalty.

Lloris has always been known for his composed and well-mannered demeanour, but that all went out of the window temporarily after he burst into a foul-mouthed verbal tirade against team-mates Aly Cissokho and Maxime Gonalons.

It is reported by the channel that after yet another fine goalkeeping performance against his former club, he told Cissokho and Gonalons, "You do not respect this shirt. It has been sh** on and flushed down the toilet."

If Hugo Lloris, a well respected pro has this to say about him... Not sure I'm interested.

 

[blackcatsteve]

I will say who I would love as our LB but i think the chances are slim, but i think he is great (or was anyway a couple of years back)

Cristian Chivu

 

[MackemsRule]

Riise went to Fulham, probably wanted European Football which we couldnt give him, but Fulham could (dont know this for certain, but sounds like it)

Warnock, never really been a fan, but hey, he is a left footed left back.


Honda not sure how he is available, plenty of clubs have went in for him, but he is still with CSKA Moscow.

N`zog from reports broke our wage cap, but i know probably less than you on this one, so that may be bollocks.

Cissokho, dont know much about him, but he is on a 5 year contract which he signed in 2009 and they bought him for €15 million so i doubt he would come cheap, and he also failed a medical with Milan in 2009, but passed one with Lyon.

I'm not up on the ins and outs of the wage cap either, and yes it pisses me off the obscene wages they are on.
(E'Too on 1.5 million a month FFS!)
But there comes a time when if we want to play with the big boys we have to pay certain players big boy wages.
Or accept we are a championship side fighting above our weight.

 

[blackcatsteve]

I'm not up on the ins and outs of the wage cap either, and yes it pisses me off the obscene wages they are on.
(E'Too on 1.5 million a month FFS!)
But there comes a time when if we want to play with the big boys we have to pay certain players big boy wages.
Or accept we are a championship side fighting above our weight.

I agree wholeheartedly, but thats not Bruces fault as well surely?

 

[MackemsRule]

I agree wholeheartedly, but thats not Bruces fault as well surely.

I'm not so blinded that I blame the riots on Bruce mate.
My beef with Bruce is purely football and his lack of tactical nous.
I haven't actually made a "serious" comment on his team selection tonight.
As it clearly spoke for itself.
And as an old hand of being a travelling supporter in the old days, if I had travelled all the way down Brighton and saw the team he put out, I would have been sorely tempted to encroach and tell him to his face he was disrespecting my club.

 

[blackcatsteve]

Well I quoted you as you brought it up, i wasnt necessarily just replying to you.

The point was though, lets say we signed N`Zog and gave him £70,000 pw, but our wage cap is £50,000 pw, other players have it in their contracts, that they have to match the top salary earner at the club, now with a wage cap thats fine, you can put that in with no worries, but as soon as you break it, you have to add £20,000 pw for each player with that in their contracts, if thats 5 players, thats an extra £100,000 a week on top of the £70,000 pw you have give N`Zog that you have to pay out in wages.

 

[MackemsRule]

Well I quoted you as you brought it up, i wasnt necessarily just replying to you.

The point was though, lets say we signed N`Zog and gave him £70,000 pw, but our wage cap is £50,000 pw, other players have it in their contracts, that they have to match the top salary earner at the club, now with a wage cap thats fine, you can put that in with no worries, but as soon as you break it, you have to add £20,000 pw for each player with that in their contracts, if thats 5 players, thats an extra £100,000 a week on top of the £70,000 pw you have give N`Zog that you have to pay out in wages.

****ing hell mate you know how to shut someone up who has shifted 2 thirds of a bottle of Glenfiddich!
My eyes went blurred just looking at the numbers never mind trying to follow your reasoning, I shall return to it in the cold sober morning.

 

[blackcatsteve]

ha ha ok

I am not here to win any arguments, or to turn anyone back into Bruces favour, I know i can never do that anyway even if i tried, I also wasnt set out to prove BB wrong either, I just say what I feel/think, If i talk bollocks i talk bollocks, if i make sense great, first time for everything.

I just think some of the criticism that Bruce gets is a bit unfair at times, yes tactics, fine, some players he has bought, fine, positions that he hasnt covered, maybe not all his fault, also Quinn and Short can do no wrong, I am not saying they are to blame, but Short holds the purse strings, we have a wage cap, which I am sure isnt down to Bruce, Bruce has had to sell to buy (for the most part). I dont expect us to do a Man City and spend 500 million, but i would like it to be a tiny bit more then 17 Million in 6 transfer windows, especially as he is building his whole squad from virtually the ground up.

anyway, like i said, I will never win (even if i wanted to, which i dont) but its 03:30am and going to bed now, night

 

[MackemsRule]

ha ha ok

I am not here to win any arguments, or to turn anyone back into Bruces favour, I know i can never do that anyway even if i tried, I also wasnt set out to prove BB wrong either, I just say what I feel/think, If i talk bollocks i talk bollocks, if i make sense great, first time for everything.

I just think some of the criticism that Bruce gets is a bit unfair at times, yes tactics, fine, some players he has bought, fine, positions that he hasnt covered, maybe not all his fault, also Quinn and Short can do no wrong, I am not saying they are to blame, but Short holds the purse strings, we have a wage cap, which I am sure isnt down to Bruce, Bruce has had to sell to buy (for the most part). I dont expect us to do a Man City and spend 500 million, but i would like it to be a tiny bit more then 17 Million in 6 transfer windows, especially as he is building his whole squad from virtually the ground up.

anyway, like i said, I will never win (even if i wanted to, which i dont) but its 03:30am and going to bed now, night

Since you love your numbers and I'm **** at them, do me a favour and work out how much the other nights starting ManU team that destroyed Spurs is worth. Pretty sure Rooney apart that is going to be a cheap squad.

Like I always say mate their's nowt wrong with a good argument, it's the personal attacks grind on me.
Or the ganging up on individuals.
This forum would be total **** if we all agreed with each other.

Took a hand full of painkillers on top of the whisky and me back's still ****ing killing me, I should still go to bed like hahaha (What did I say on an earlier post about the worm drowning? May have enjoyed myself but I'm suffering big time now. )

 

[blackcatsteve]

Well i am not doing it at 4am (well i might as just got myself a cup of coffee) but wasnt de`gea (sp) about 16 million, Rooney 32.5 million, Jones, 17 million, Anderson 28 million or there abouts, Smalling 8 million, Young 16 million, not sure who else played though as i didnt see it so will have to go searching, but can you even put a price on Cleverly, Giggs (think he came on), Welbeck s they came through the youth ranks, so until someone buys them (which will never happen with Giggs) its hard to judge, but even just the ones i listed, are a canny whack.

OK sod it, this is what they bought them for.

1 De Gea 17.6 miilion
12 Smalling 7 miilion
4 Jones 17 million
23 Evans Youth
3 Evra 7 million
18 Young 16 million
35 Cleverley Youth
8 Anderson 28 million
17 Nani 22.5 million
10 Rooney 32.5 million
19 Welbeck Youth

Total: £147.6 million

May as well do the bench as well.

34 Lindegaard 4.4 million
9 Berbatov 33.5 million
11 Giggs Youth
13 Park 6.5 million
14 Hernandez 6.6 million
16 Carrick 24 million
20 Fabio Youth

Bench Total: 75 million

Grand Total: £222,600,000 (and thats with 5 players coming through the youth system)

 

[Commachio]

If your all doing numbers, how about working out how much the Brighton team cost............

if I had travelled all the way down Brighton and saw the team he put out, I would have been sorely tempted to encroach and tell him to his face he was disrespecting my club

Gotta feel for those who made that long trip on a midweek night match.

 

[blackcatsteve]

Does it really matter though, Cup upsets happen all the time, its what makes the cup so romantic, if upsets never happened Man U would get to the final all the time, teams like Blyth Spartans would not have a great History in the FA Cup, we wouldnt have won it in `73.

Yes I agree he put the wrong team out, and it was a bloody hard game and not a walk in the park by any means, we got beat, we fight another day, Congrats Brighton.

 

[MrRAWhite]

Under Wilko & McCartney no money, no direction, we accepted it because we knew there was no way out of it, it wasn't ok, but it was the only way it could be in the moment.

Now we have a billionaire owner and a squad full of quality, ****ing right we should expect results, especially at home, and ****ing right when we don't get them we should vent, we should walk out down and thinking what the ****.

Shall we continue to trot out the 'best finish since under Reid' ****e, or shall we think as one of the biggest spenders in the last 5 seasons we should have seen this as the bare minimum requirement?

Should a club, backed by a billionaire, with a glorious history and an average gate in excess of 40k accept mediocrity?

Should we, the fans, think that staying in the big league for 5 years is a magnificent achievement?

Should we ****.

'Aye, but Everton have a much stronger side'.

A very popular train of thought when we look at the elusive top 7.

If they do, it comes down to mismanagement in the transfer market by a succession of average managers, we should have that gap closed by now, we should have had that gap closed 2 years ago, they spend nowt, we spend millions, they don't often buy established stars, indeed, when did they last sign a 'big name'?

**** excuses, we need reasons.

The reason we are happy with a top 10 finish is because we know that despite millions spent that is the pinnacle of what the club was capable last season.

With millions spent, this is surely inadequate, remind me, back to Everton, the outlay for Baines, Cahill, Arteta and Jagielka?

The reason we are failing this season so far is that despite Bruce signing several good players, at least half of these players were not needed, indeed they have not played.

The positions Bruce was on record as saying needed filling remain unfilled, we have an overload of midfielders, 8 of which were used tonight against lower league opposition, only one is left footed, and he is a central midfielder.

So, as money was available to Bruce, and he spent it, where do we turn to point the fingers, where are the goals? Where is the service?

Who's responsibility was it to rectify this?

Mr Steve Bruce, Manager, Sunderland Association Football Club.

There's an old saying which I think is very appropriate here: "Rome wasn't built in a day". We have shown a steady improvement in our league position under Bruce, yet people are still calling for his head after a couple of games into the season....
I'm not saying I'm happy withBruce's formation/tactics, and in last nights case I most certainly wasn't. However, I do feel that it will be the knee-jerk over-reaction of many of our fans rather than Bruce that will be more detrimental to our club if it continues.

 

[billofengland]

You are not wrong BB, far from it, and it has brought out some interesting facts and figures, am going to have to read this thread again, after work, as I think this one will run awhile, and more interesting data will be added, a good thread mate.

 

[safcrealist]

You're spot on BBeak, we shouldn't accept mediocrity. We're the seventh biggest spenders, in that spending league the teams above and immediately below all have had either European adventures or silverware or both. We spend money and struggle, with some clowns just accepting it and having a go at fans who put pressure on the club to seek better players and staff, Madness!

 

[Nads]

There's an old saying which I think is very appropriate here: "Rome wasn't built in a day". We have shown a steady improvement in our league position under Bruce, yet people are still calling for his head after a couple of games into the season....
I'm not saying I'm happy withBruce's formation/tactics, and in last nights case I most certainly wasn't. However, I do feel that it will be the knee-jerk over-reaction of many of our fans rather than Bruce that will be more detrimental to our club if it continues.

I'm trying to ease back and get back to supporting the lads RAW,but i have to say again.

This is NOT 2 games of a new season, this is 31 games now.

We finished 10th, but the league was undeniably weak.

I'm not anti-Bruce at all costs, i'd be delighted if we went on a good run with him at the helm.

I AM pro-Sunderland at all costs, and i struggle to find the belief that such a run is forthcoming.

 

[blackcatsteve]

Everton didnt have a striker they were bottom 4 for most of early season last season, then it clicked.

Chelsea lost Terry, Lampard, Essian, and went on a 8 game not winning streak (including our 0-3 win over them, at stamford bridge, where they hadnt even conceded a goal before we went there)

We had the most clean sheets at one point of the season with 9 I think it was.

We got a deadful run of injuries, even the loan players we brought in, got injured, If Everton and Chelsea struggle, what chance have we got.

Newcastle were 7 points behind us, before we went on the bad run, we still finished 1 point ahead of them, so they didnt exactly set the world alight either.

Is everything rosey, of course it isnt, is everything downcast and gloomy, no. The buck does stop with Bruce, but even Quinn said at the end of last season, they hadnt give Bruce much of a chance, thing is, I still cant see them giving him much of a chance if we are honest about it, mostly free transfers from relegated teams, no loans this time which means we will probably still get 1-2 in, just depends who they are.