Talking to Letterboxes

Sounds to me like whataboutism. I think, as I first stated, bojo (as usual) doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Peer pressure and "western values" are not quite the same as "do as you're told, woman, or else..."
A hijab just signals to me that at best (of the worst) the woman believes in superstitious stuff and nonsense and complies with tradition. Understand, I really don't have a problem with the hijab as an item of clothing, it's just the over riding sense of oppression that comes with it. It's the more "conservative" attire that sticks in my craw.

 

Having watch daughters growing up and be expected to wear next to nothing, be sexually available and be freely groped etc etc... .all by 'white' men..

I do have sympathy for the position..... however the problem is clearly with different societies which 'expect' women to behave in certain ways.... and this is not just the Burka...

I remember travelling in central Turkey in the early 80s with my girl friend ... she steadfastly thought it was OK to wear shorts etc.... and was the subject of gropings and cat calls etc.... meanwhile most women stayed in the homes etc.... and the coffee bars played western porn movies.....

 

I am well aware of when the various texts were written. It's all still a load of iron age rubbish designed to maintain a patriarchal hierarchy.
"If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world." as Christopher Hitchens said. Put a young girl into a mosque and the "free will" soon goes.

I don't hate them. I pity them, they have no choice.​

Free will in a muslim society is the most dangerous of possessions... let alone anywhere else that "honour" is involved regardless of religion.

 

We've been to Egypt and Morocco regularly. Mrs Fez always wears sleeves to the elbows and at least knee length trousers or skirts - a bit more conservative in Egypt than in Morocco. I have no time for men with no respect for women however they're dressed: at the minimum look but don't touch, she's not yours to touch, and keep your mouth shut! If you can't manage it, put a bag over your head until you can. Not been to Turkey, not likely to either on your testimony... unless we get Besiktas in the Europa League!

 

My four daughters were strong independent spirits who chose which fashions they adopted and which they did not. They were never expected to wear next to nothing, be sexually available or be freely groped. I wonder how many women grew up like that.
If a woman chooses to wear clothing that will not "excite" pathetic men she is being sensible. If someone forces her to do it that is wrong.
According to a news programme today it seems the "letterbox" is mainly a Saudi invention so ridiculing it is in no way ridiculing Islam as the vast majority do not wear it. It comes back to fair criticsm of a stupid way to dress. Blokes wearing hoodies have been equally criticised but never suggested their "faith" was being attacked.
I agree BoJo is stupid and chose to be provocative - but that does not make what he said incorrect.

 

Feel free to visit Turkey Fez. There is a vast difference between Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara and the more rural areas - the 3 cities are cosmopolitan and open, and Istanbul, particularly is a mecca for music from the whole World.

 

This popped up elsewhere and I'm disappointed I didn't think of this:

I find the phrase "she was asking for it" more objectionable than "she looks like a letter box". Just sayin'...

 

Fair enough, but maybe after Erdogan has gone. Not going back to the States anytime soon, either.

 

Probably most of us admit to feeling uncomfortable talking to just a pair of eyes, but this does not excuse Johnson for using inflammatory language. He has used the wrong words in the past and the result is that a woman is still in jail when there was a good chance she could have been freed by now. The man thinks only about himself, and should never be in charge of even a whelk stall.

 

He remains the most popular politician in the UK, his funny comment will make him even more popular.

 

Apart from the fact there is NO evidence to back up such a ridiculous claim, I will try and help by suggesting he is the most popular politician in the Uk with you, and (thankfully) your views are shared with a miniscule minority.

 

As a Conservative I'm actually in the largest political group in the UK, they have been for many years and look like to continue for many more due to the lack of a credible opposition. Within the Tory voting community Boris is extremely popular. Maths does not seem to be one of your strong points.

 

The popularity of your hero SH stands at 15%. Rees-Mogg comes in at 6% along with Gove. These are figures for the whole population, not the blue rinse brigade of the dying out Tory party.

 

Do you not understand that members of the Conservative party chose the next leader once down to the last two?

 

I understand perfectly. It shows how out of touch the Tory members are with the population at large. A small, and growing smaller by the day party has lost touch completely with the country. You told us earlier today that we should listen to experts. Well those experts are now saying that the country has changed it's opinion, and your one off day is no longer what people want. It requires people like you to admit that you were conned, but to coin a famous song by a Watford hero, "Sorry is the hardest word."

 

We have already established that political party membership has little effect on how the UK public votes. The Tories have been the most popular party for ages and looks as if that will continue. Despite the present difficulties with Brexit the Tories still lead in the polls. This is incredible support, most governments have a mid term dip.
The referendum was the vehicle to decide the UK's future with the EU, there is no indication that has changed whatsoever. It is people like you that were embarrassingly conned with project fear. The UK's best option is a quick release from the low growth high unemployment block known as the EU.

 

The Tories no longer lead in the polls for a start. According to the latest polls they are now 4 per cent behind. The experts who have done detailed work on what people think now shows that 53% want to stay in the EU, while 47% would leave. In 112 seats the vote opinion has changed with some huge swings in parts of the country. Experts have compiled those figure, and according to you we should take note.

 

You mentioned party membership SH. so I can elaborate on it It must be worrying for the Tories that their average membership age is, apparently, 71.5 years of age. Whilst you are right in that membership size has only limited effect on the way people vote, it does has an influence on the election campaign itself. At the last 2 elections the Tories have been further ahead (in opinion polls) at the beginning of the campaign than at the end. The last time was dramatic - narrowing from over 12% lead to around 2% at the end. This suggests that Labour is actually winning the campaigning itself. With that in the background the Tories would need to have a lead well exceeding double figures to feel confident about an election. Labour simply has more people out there campaigning - and, they are younger. How old will the average Tory Party member be in 10 years time ?

 

Drat, why did I mention party membership?

The Labour Party have lost three elections in a row and should be 15 points ahead at the moment. With Corbyn constantly undermining the LP you should not be at all confident of a victory.

As Labour voters mature they turn into Tories so the Conservatives are most likely to remain the natural party in government in the UK. The LP is also busy tearing itself apart, not good for floating voters.

 

The only experts that matter are the PM and her cabinet members. They have no intention of denying the will of the people in the only poll that counts.