Match Day Thread Talking point "Our disciplinary"

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Is it always a yellow? Always? The only claim you can make about it being objective is that it is clearly a foul. Whether or not it's worth a card is subjective, proven by the fact that I and several others have a different opinion to yours.
Or are you suggesting that my opinion is invalid?
Everyone seems to be missing my point. I said it was harsh, not that it was wrong, and I had no desire to make a big deal out of it, but I wanted to use it as an example of how inconsistent we as fans can be, so it's not a hanging offence for officials to be similarly inconsistent.
I'm not disputing that the standard of refs is poor, just saying that even if it was a lot higher we would still have people disagreeing over anything where disagreement is possible.
Too often imo, "refs being consistent" translates to "refs doing what I think they should".

Patterson's effort on Diaz in the box could easily have been deemed a penalty, imo - and we didn't get anything.

in that position its 90% a yellow (UNLESS A REF DOESN'T WANT TO SEND A PLAYER OFF)

If that happens without young already being booked not one person would debate that as not being a yellow.

the closer to goal the lower the threshold for yellows it seems to me.

theres a massive difference to where konate made his second foul and young did.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Is it always a yellow? Always? The only claim you can make about it being objective is that it is clearly a foul. Whether or not it's worth a card is subjective, proven by the fact that I and several others have a different opinion to yours.
Or are you suggesting that my opinion is invalid?
Everyone seems to be missing my point. I said it was harsh, not that it was wrong, and I had no desire to make a big deal out of it, but I wanted to use it as an example of how inconsistent we as fans can be, so it's not a hanging offence for officials to be similarly inconsistent.
I'm not disputing that the standard of refs is poor, just saying that even if it was a lot higher we would still have people disagreeing over anything where disagreement is possible.
Too often imo, "refs being consistent" translates to "refs doing what I think they should".

Patterson's effort on Diaz in the box could easily have been deemed a penalty, imo - and we didn't get anything.

I entirely get your point. I just think you picked a poor example to emphasise your point. Nothing more, nothing less. Not sure how you get to me suggesting your opinion is invalid from that

 

[saintanton]

I entirely get your point. I just think you picked a poor example to emphasise your point. Nothing more, nothing less. Not sure how you get to me suggesting your opinion is invalid from that

Because you said it was objective. Objective means not open to interpretation, so if something is a fact any opinion to the contrary is absurd.
I used one incident as an example - I could have quoted the earlier debate about Mike Dean and the hair-pull, or Onana's demolition of the Wolves player at the start of the season, or any one of a number of incidents that not everyone agrees upon.
I used a specific incident as an example of a general point, and unfortunately it has become about that specific incident nobody seems inclined to address the general point - it being that as we can't be consistent amongst ourselves with opinions, so to expect the officials to be in accord with us is irrational. Whatever they do someone will disagree, and it will always be that way.

 

[saintanton]

in that position its 90% a yellow (UNLESS A REF DOESN'T WANT TO SEND A PLAYER OFF)

If that happens without young already being booked not one person would debate that as not being a yellow.

the closer to goal the lower the threshold for yellows it seems to me.

theres a massive difference to where konate made his second foul and young did.

I didn't mention Konaté.
If I must, then Young went for the ball and failed, Konaté is accused of deliberately impeding a player with no attempt to get the ball. I'm not passing judgement, just pointing out they're not equatable incidents.
As for your shouty bit - isn't that my point, that things are open to interpretation and not cut and dried in every case?

 

[Zanjinho]

in that position its 90% a yellow (UNLESS A REF DOESN'T WANT TO SEND A PLAYER OFF)

If that happens without young already being booked not one person would debate that as not being a yellow.

the closer to goal the lower the threshold for yellows it seems to me.

theres a massive difference to where konate made his second foul and young did.

It's not for the referee to decide that, they should be judging the challenge and making decision purely on that. What happened before is irrelevant

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

It's not for the referee to decide that, they should be judging the challenge and making decision purely on that. What happened before is irrelevant

and ally mccoist complete contradicted this while whinging for about 50mins on Saturday about "common sense" and keeping 11 on the park

 

[Zanjinho]

and ally mccoist complete contradicted this while whinging for about 50mins on Saturday about "common sense" and keeping 11 on the park

I said after the game, I usually like Ally commentating but he was a dick on Saturday, completely out of character imo

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I said after the game, I usually like Ally commentating but he was a dick on Saturday, completely out of character imo

it was like he was channelling his inner Andy bitter gray.

these guys need to understand they are not on commentary to play the fool pundit like rio ferdinand where it seems rampant bias is now fine (one form each side hammering away)

you are on commentary then call the game down the middle and stop harping on and harping on.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Because you said it was objective. Objective means not open to interpretation, so if something is a fact any opinion to the contrary is absurd.
I used one incident as an example - I could have quoted the earlier debate about Mike Dean and the hair-pull, or Onana's demolition of the Wolves player at the start of the season, or any one of a number of incidents that not everyone agrees upon.
I used a specific incident as an example of a general point, and unfortunately it has become about that specific incident nobody seems inclined to address the general point - it being that as we can't be consistent amongst ourselves with opinions, so to expect the officials to be in accord with us is irrational. Whatever they do someone will disagree, and it will always be that way.

I agree with everything you've said except the example you chose which is why I only addressed that and not the rest of your original post.

 

[The IncREDibles]

I said after the game, I usually like Ally commentating but he was a dick on Saturday, completely out of character imo

It was probably better than talksports commentary that I had to put up with, as they had the partisan Kevin Campbell.

 

[Zanjinho]

It was probably better than talksports commentary that I had to put up with, as they had the partisan Kevin Campbell.

Kevin Campbell is another Liverpool hater, quite a few of them on TalkSport

 

[saintanton]

I agree with everything you've said except the example you chose which is why I only addressed that and not the rest of your original post.

Fair enough - we can just disagree. I think I'd like to let it lie here. I was making a universal point and didn't want to get bogged down over specifics.

 

[saintanton]

Kevin Campbell is another Liverpool hater, quite a few of them on TalkSport

I watched some highlights on the LFC YouTube channel. I'm assuming it was Gary Gillespie speaking, and he said Young's first yellow was harsh and Diaz "knew what he was doing".

 

[saintanton]

it was like he was channelling his inner Andy bitter gray.

these guys need to understand they are not on commentary to play the fool pundit like rio ferdinand where it seems rampant bias is now fine (one form each side hammering away)

you are on commentary then call the game down the middle and stop harping on and harping on.

I don't even know why they exist. You only need one commentator - he doesn't need a mate to exchange banter with.
Waste of money imo.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I don't even know why they exist. You only need one commentator - he doesn't need a mate to exchange banter with.
Waste of money imo.

I can't recall exactly when it became a thing that a commentator needed an expert to tell him what was going on.

it's changed since to be a pair of whingers.

 

[saintanton]

It's not for the referee to decide that, they should be judging the challenge and making decision purely on that. What happened before is irrelevant

The problem arises when they chuck out early yellows for petty things.
Speaking of which, I notice the zeal with which they hand out yellows for time wasting (like the ridiculous one given to Trent) seems to have abated somewhat.
None of us predicted that now, did we?

 

[Mr Beej]

I watched some highlights on the LFC YouTube channel. I'm assuming it was Gary Gillespie speaking, and he said Young's first yellow was harsh and Diaz "knew what he was doing".

He probably did but it happens all the time. Players on all sides are trying to gain an advantage. It does my head in when players/managers then complain about things they are trying to do themselves.

 

[LuisDiazgamechanger]

I watched some highlights on the LFC YouTube channel. I'm assuming it was Gary Gillespie speaking, and he said Young's first yellow was harsh and Diaz "knew what he was doing".

Diaz was too quick for Young. Young had to stop him.Ashley Young is 38 years old.

 

[saintanton]

He probably did but it happens all the time. Players on all sides are trying to gain an advantage. It does my head in when players/managers then complain about things they are trying to do themselves.

Maybe, but I think Diaz would have preferred a gallop down the line to a free 10 yards in his own half.
But yes, players do it all the time and it's daft when players or managers complain about someone else doing what they themselves do. We as fans are guilty of that too.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The problem arises when they chuck out early yellows for petty things.
Speaking of which, I notice the zeal with which they hand out yellows for time wasting (like the ridiculous one given to Trent) seems to have abated somewhat.
None of us predicted that now, did we?

yeah but.

there's petty (kicking ball away, back chat, time wasting)

and there's snide.

youngest foul was a deliberate, snide chop to stop a player beaking into his space that he couldn't get back towards. it should be a yellow minute 1 or minute 90.

the problem with refs is they give the petty (see trent) and then refuse to give the snide (see most city players)

so if ally mccoist spoken about common sense he should have actually said he was happy with a free for all in the first half.