Take over bid

[polyphemus]

That’s what I was saying, but a lot more succinctly put

Quite right, but there is a but.

Wolves loss was in the Championship and represented to cost of getting promoted.
It mirrored Newcastle's recent experience.
Leeds owner is saying that if they don't get promoted this Season he will have to sell as he can't afford anther go at it.

Once promoted, there are the top group where MU, Spurs and Arsenal seem to have a sustainable self supporting business model but Man City, Chelsea and to some extent, Liverpool seem to rely on the 'sugar daddy' owner as indeed do many of the rest of the league.
Our own experiences show that without this backing sooner or later the relegation season will come and then the Club goes through Hell.


Our current owners are doing a great job but it takes a lot it seems to get back to where we were.
And things like gate money, though a useful added extra is not going to make a significant difference.

So while it's true enough in theory that some one with no finance can ask the Bank for the money to mount a promotion campaign, the answer from your friendly Bank is far more likely to be YES if the person asking is a multi billionaire who is prepare to sign a personal guarantee.

I do hope though that when the time comes for our current owners to sell up, they do well out of it, financially. They have given us the chance to have some pride in our Club again, so it's a big thank you from me.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Quite right, but there is a but.

Wolves loss was in the Championship and represented to cost of getting promoted.
It mirrored Newcastle's recent experience.
Leeds owner is saying that if they don't get promoted this Season he will have to sell as he can't afford anther go at it.

Once promoted, there are the top group where MU, Spurs and Arsenal seem to have a sustainable self supporting business model but Man City, Chelsea and to some extent, Liverpool seem to rely on the 'sugar daddy' owner as indeed do many of the rest of the league.
Our own experiences show that without this backing sooner or later the relegation season will come and then the Club goes through Hell.


Our current owners are doing a great job but it takes a lot it seems to get back to where we were.
And things like gate money, though a useful added extra is not going to make a significant difference.

So while it's true enough in theory that some one with no finance can ask the Bank for the money to mount a promotion campaign, the answer from your friendly Bank is far more likely to be YES if the person asking is a multi billionaire who is prepare to sign a personal guarantee.

I do hope though that when the time comes for our current owners to sell up, they do well out of it, financially. They have given us the chance to have some pride in our Club again, so it's a big thank you from me.

But there are other revenue streams that can keep the club sustainable, beyond gate money. The key one in the Borussia Dortmund comparison being player development and sales. Then there are sponsorship deals which can be grown in relation to success on the pitch. There's plenty more mileage in merchandise (which the club have been crap at recently- comparing the quality of the gear in our club shop to say West Ham is horrifying), then there's all of the other avenues that the club could go down away from football, concerts at the stadium just being the tip of the iceberg. There's loads that could be done with a bit of imagination and by looking round Europe at clubs that have found their USP and exploited it and following suit. St Pauli in Hamburg being an excellent example. There's no reason why we can't do the same even though it might be slow going. Yes, some investment along the way would help us out, but there are plenty of examples of well-run clubs that don't have and don't need a sugar daddy.

 

[polyphemus]

But there are other revenue streams that can keep the club sustainable, beyond gate money. The key one in the Borussia Dortmund comparison being player development and sales. Then there are sponsorship deals which can be grown in relation to success on the pitch. There's plenty more mileage in merchandise (which the club have been crap at recently- comparing the quality of the gear in our club shop to say West Ham is horrifying), then there's all of the other avenues that the club could go down away from football, concerts at the stadium just being the tip of the iceberg. There's loads that could be done with a bit of imagination and by looking round Europe at clubs that have found their USP and exploited it and following suit. St Pauli in Hamburg being an excellent example. There's no reason why we can't do the same even though it might be slow going. Yes, some investment along the way would help us out, but there are plenty of examples of well-run clubs that don't have and don't need a sugar daddy.

I can not argue with one word of that.
But, (that little word again), this is something of a long term strategy and many aspects, such as marketing and sponsorship are in the 'chicken and egg' category. They will be easiest to increase AFTER success has been achieved.

However the present owners look to be just the sort of business people to get this going in the right way.

My concern is that Football Fans, in general and even some of our long suffering hoards of optimists, have a tendency to get impatient.
The Chelsea / Man City route represents a short cut, IF it becomes available.

In passing I have noticed some improvement in the marketing this season.
For ages I've wondered at the replica tops on sale.
Very run of the mill.
My old, favourite, 'Tribute to Roker Park' top is disintegrating.
Now I have just bought a replica to go along with a new 92 Cup Final top. That's two in two months. Both have only recently become available.
I
I HOPE that this is a good sign of things to come.

 

[The Norton Cat]

I can not argue with one word of that.
But, (that little word again), this is something of a long term strategy and many aspects, such as marketing and sponsorship are in the 'chicken and egg' category. They will be easiest to increase AFTER success has been achieved.

However the present owners look to be just the sort of business people to get this going in the right way.

My concern is that Football Fans, in general and even some of our long suffering hoards of optimists, have a tendency to get impatient.
The Chelsea / Man City route represents a short cut, IF it becomes available.

In passing I have noticed some improvement in the marketing this season.
For ages I've wondered at the replica tops on sale.
Very run of the mill.
My old, favourite, 'Tribute to Roker Park' top is disintegrating.
Now I have just bought a replica to go along with a new 92 Cup Final top. That's two in two months. Both have only recently become available.
I
I HOPE that this is a good sign of things to come.

This is true, most of that stuff would have to be part of a long term strategy. A little financial bump start would of course help to get the ball rolling. I'm quite intrigued by the idea of the 'cult' club (St Pauli again) and with Stewart Donald's refreshing approach to fan engagement I wonder if there might be more scope for going down that route. Exploiting a unique niche might be a way of circumventing the need for heavy investment, although that would still need to be part of a long term strategy.

 

[dansafcman]

Don't forget Juan! He's a pretty rich bloke, and safc is one of the few remaining interests he is allowed to keep going.

Cult club is possible imo. The success of Sunderland till I die series is bloody impressive, the number of people who I have spoken to over here in Europe (France, Switzerland, Holland, Spain) who have watched it and loved it is fantastic. Them saying they want to watch a Sunderland at the sol, that they have seen *generic London club* play but now want to see Sunderland as they think we're a proper football club and think the fans are amazing. Win a Wembley final, get promoted and the 2nd series out and I think we will start to get a very big (relatively) international following. And this now means, thanks to Donald etc, subscriptions to international fan packs, live match stream subscriptions etc.

We could quickly have a very sustainable revenue stream.

 

[jdsafc]

We cannot go back to a position of putting the cart before the horse by spending money that we don't have. SAFC was so close to folding it was untrue

Sustainable growth is the way forward, and if that means it takes a bit longer to get back to the prem then that's how it goes

Stuart Donald is an entrepreneur. One example he gave as a possibility to increase the Club's financial clout was to mortgage the stadium and buy assets such as hotels,

 

[polyphemus]

We cannot go back to a position of putting the cart before the horse by spending money that we don't have. SAFC was so close to folding it was untrue

Sustainable growth is the way forward, and if that means it takes a bit longer to get back to the prem then that's how it goes

Stuart Donald is an entrepreneur. One example he gave as a possibility to increase the Club's financial clout was to mortgage the stadium and buy assets such as hotels,

A word of caution here.
SAFC is a Football Club, NOT a property developer.

Consider the example of Coventry City.
When they moved from Highfield Rd they lost control of their ground.

At one time they had to groundshare at Northampton and having returned to The Richo Arena they share with Wasps Rugby Club.
However there seems to be further trouble ahead and there is no guarantee that they will have a ground to play on next Season.
The Club could fold.

I know that mortgaging your assets isn't the same as selling them, but if things go wrong, you lose these assets just the same.

 

[Makemstine Roger]

I don't understand why people think there is a perfect correlation between the owners' wealth and the wealth of the club.

The owner may support the cash flow of club in the short term, but they become secured creditors within the Club's finances, and are eventually repaid.

When they acquire a football cub they don't assign their personal wealth to the football club.

Granted, there are clubs like Man City where the owner is bankrolling activities, but there are plenty of clubs where the club is skint and the wealthy owner chooses not to financially support the club[/
we are not talking about the skunks kindly get back on topic