Not saying that, never have, never will. Let's be honest, opinion is one thing, "I think Szczeney made a mistake letting in that goal;" no problem. "I think Szczeney will never be good enough," or "I think Szczeney would have let in a goal if this, that and the other had, or hadn't happened;" big problem. That isn't really opinion any more, because it is voodoo. Holding a strong opinion about something that is so variable and unknown becomes questionable. It is like saying, "I know that this coin flip is going to come up tails! It's ****ing obvious you moron! It's come up tails 4 times out of the last 5 and therefore it's coming up tails this time; anyone who says it isn't going to be tails , or isn't more likely to be tails, is an idiot!" All I am trying to point out, is that holding a strong opinion about something that is highly unpredictable, is not going to be as respected, as holding an opinion on something that is more predictable. Edit - I'll go on and say that holding a strong opinion on something based on flimsy or no evidence starts to become faith or a "belief". Now when people do it for "good" reasons, like belief in a kind and benevolent God, most people can accept it and look reasonably kindly on it. When you have "faith" that a player on the team you support is going to be a failure, or in an evil or uncaring God, then that "faith" is seen as disfunctional. That is the reason that the player haters get so much stick. Why have "faith" in something that is supposedly bad for you? Squillaci is a very poor example - there is plenty of good evidence that he is a pile of dog doodle.
Yes but Mr Wenger qualifies every statement with " i believe that " surely we are just doing the same . and how does someone expressing the opinion that " Chesney will never be good enough "... cause a " big problem " Its no problem at all , its merely an opinion . Thats what forums are for. I WILL say things and you WILL say that im being silly. some people give the impression that even deviating from total and unconditional praise will not be tolerated and is unnacceptable. THAT is a slippery slope . I say . Let everyone say exactly what they want without being accused of being less of a supporter. Its a forum
OK - I accept that this is your opinion, but do you see now why when you do this (at least I) consider your support for Arsenal questionable, when you have a faith-based, belief in the failure of certain players? Why should I not be allowed this opinion, when I can at least cite evidence for it? Opinions are not equal, otherwise debate is pointless.
mmm i cant have a faith based belief in football players . How can you have faith that a player will improve ? We gave up on Chamakh and a lot of people said he would come good. What happened to peoples faith in him ? A lot of people have given up on Arshavin , where is the faith there that he will get his mojo back. It seems to me that its a personal thing , if you like a player , you will tolerate his mistakes and inadequacies , if you dont like him , he becomes deadwood that needs to go. For example , i LIKE Sagna as a person and will overlook the odd disastrous mistake . If i didnt like him , maybe i could not overlook it. I dont understand the comment that opinions are not equal .
Personally I try not to go too far either way (I try to remain agnostic), but I admit some supporters do , "have faith that a player will improve" and I agree it goes both ways in that case. But even if I did as you say, "have faith", I have tried to show you that belief in a "good" thing is (usually) looked on more kindly, that belief in a "bad" thing.
change the word " belief " for "hope " and we are not far from being on the same page. coz at the end of the day , all we can do is HOPE they come good and play well.
It's not a cop out, it's basic goalkeeping. Szczesny doesn't have to charge out of his goal everytime the ball goes near to the box and if you do leave your line you have to be sure you're going to get there first, Szczesny didn't even get close and left the goal open for Kone. Had he stayed on his line, only a fool would have said he could've easily got to the ball and even if you felt he could, it was unlikely a point would have been made of it either as a header from 10 yards is unlikely to beat a 'keeper on his line. It was an error that could have gifted Wigan a goal, if you want to continue denying that after looking at it then that's fine but don't act like anyone that disagrees would criticise Szczesny no matter what he'd done.
Exactly. It's bizarre that someone would even be able to make such a long discussion about this elementary mistake, let alone calling the keeper's judgement "100% perfect".
I think that it is strange that ****s posing as Arsenal supporters seem to think it is their job to come to a thread entitled "The Szczeney appreciation thread" and **** with it. I know why Yid is here, what is your pathetic excuse?
Agreed This is the crux of the issue for me. Yes Ramsey had some terrible games last season and it's not the failure to point that out -as I was accused of- that matters, but the bigger picture of him having steadily improving games to the point where he now is a key player in our MF that is the pertinent issue. Things change, Ramsey changed - but some people's opinions of him didn't.
I'm not troubled by your personal insults, as it has been proven here when a person loses an argument on the specifics without a hope of conceding on even the most obvious (i.e. the clear missjudgement of Szcz), they resort to calling names. Why did I post in this "appreciation" thread you say? Piskie mentioned the Wigan game as a reason for appreciating him which makes his Wigan performance relevant to the thread, no? I'm not a "bandwagon" type of guy, so the consensus on Szczesny on this board doesn't matter to me when I at least talk on specifics about his performances. I will raise discussion points and people like you and Piskie may choose to engage on the points I raise, or just go on the usual "o.m.g. hater Szcz young and talented, **** posing as Arsenal fan"... that says more about you than me. I criticize poor qualities of players when they are "in" with the fans (i.e. Walcott), and defend other players when the fans "turn" on them (you can see examples on Sagna, Ramsey and plenty others here). On whichever side I am I at least try to break it down in issues and not make it just a "I love him/I hate him" discussion. Without that these would only be fanboy threads and wouldn't have much to "discuss" about.
gent. I just flicked through your last 50 posts (2 pages) and although not all were Arsenal related, I only found one that was remotely positive or supportive of our club. Toledo's comments are justified. You clearly swing very heavily towards the negative pole.
Oh no I didn't meet the required quota of support in the last 50 posts did I... you won't excommunicate me will you Padre? My faith is still strong I swear. How are Toledo's comments justified in any case? Look at my original post this thread and tell me that what Toledo says about that specific situation doesn't border on delusion? So because a spud is on my side of the argument that means my intention was just to be negative for its sake?
This is a pointless argument. Chez my have been punished but that's hypothetical. Gent and COYG argument is getting tiring now.
The original argument was if this (Wigan) game was a good sample to 'rate' Chez highly by. It wasn't, and not just because of that situation. (though it was an elementary mistake)
How not? He made some crucial saves to keep us in at 1-1 and to discount Wigan as minor is the elitist attitude that has cost us many points this season
