We didn't deserve to win, but I still think the main contributing factor was the "commitment" of the Stoke challenges in the first half an hour. Any 50/50 they go in as hard as they can, which gives the opposition player 2 options - get out of the way or enter a 50/50 for who's leg get's broken, and seeing as Stoke do that a lot more than we do you'd back the Stoke player to walk away every time. I'll accept that we didn't deserve to win and there's more than one way of playing football, but I absolutely hate the way Stoke play. Leroy Lita tweeted last night "If I was put in a team just to throw the ball, I'd quit, but that's just me. It's called FOOTball for a reason.".
We lost because they had two set pieces where we should have defended better, and Tremmel had an absolute howler. Those were their only shots on target. Nothing to do with our fight. We had more possession than we normally do, even though they were pressing us with 6 players at times, and had more shots on target than they did. Sinclair should have buried his chance early on and Begovic pulled off a wonder save from Caulker, so we had enough chances to get something from the game. Both teams made the same amount of tackles, yet Stoke committed twice as many fouls. That's not counting the fouls (still think there were two penalty shouts) that were not given. Stoke's reputation precedes them unfortunately and I must admit that probably wasn't their dirtiest game, however I still think they were treated kindly by Howard Webb and that they go in to tackles with unnecessary momentum, which tends to result in an illegal tackle. I feel strongly that these types of challenges need to be punished harshly and consistently, and Stoke are the worst culprits for it. Norway, I think you must be one of the Jacks who harks back to a time when you could go in two footed, and you could go through your man as long as you touch the ball in some way, but those days are gone. The rules have changed, but are not being applied properly yet. When they are applied correctly, we will pick up a lot more points and Stoke will pick up a lot less.
You have a valid point, Leeeon. Can't imagine Stoke being able to play that way outside of the UK, but that's irrelevant. They are what they are and we didn't deal with it. If we lose next week to Wigan at least it'll be to a team that play football. I think it rankles with Swans fans that you can play the way Stoke do and comfortably maintain your league status year in year out. Truth is you can, and they do, like it or not. At least for now. Good post, NJ and I agree with most of it. I've posted elsewhere that just as you can't judge a player on having one cracking game you shouldn't be too harsh on Tremmel. Yes he had a mare, but calls for his head are rash, if understandable. Other teams have persevered with keepers and it's paid off. Getting rid after one poor game isn't want good managers do, I'm afraid. Rodgers is pissing me off though. You're right to point out he seems to have his favourites that can do no wrong. Sinclair is the prime example. Moore is another. I know we've done this to death but Dobbie not even on the bench? Just the sort of game when he could have come on and had a crack - and we all know he'd have at least tried. To hardly trouble their keeper is unforgivable imo and I can't imagine that happening if Dobbie had been on the pitch. Probably a moot point now, as despite Rodgers' noises to the contrary he's got no intention of using him.
Silly argument really. Not allowed headers or to use chests or knees now? I've always quite liked that football is played differently by many teams. There is no 'right' way to play, you just have to get the ball in the opponents net more times. Stoke play to their strengths, which are that they are big and strong and good in the air. They are not as technical as teams like Swansea, so why play that way against them? Obviously I'm not condoning teams which kick other teams off the park deliberately but I don't think Stoke do this, they just play with a lot of heart (possibly more than head sometimes).
Leon- you Are completly wrong fella RE going back to a time when 2 footed tackles were ok, your also going off on a complete tangent as rash tackles wernt Even on the menu yesterday! Stating the obvious regarding the rules as well, i didnt see Stoke put in any 2 footed tackles or Get anyone sent off yesterday, in fact i Think Norwich were more synical and just as physical but they had less stick from us jacks. If you have played the game at any level you would accept that indimidation and hard but fair tackles Are nuts and bolts of the game,This Will never change!! The point people seem to be missing is that the swans have dealt with this treatment for years! There have been plenty of teams that have tried to kick us off the park but we refused to buckle when those games came around, leon britton would be as Brave as a lion against These sides! It was the same early season, we were prepared to fight for the right to play which is something we have lacked the last 2 games. As for 50/50 tackles if you have played (im sure we all have played local leagues and higher) then you Will know that if you dont go in 100% thats the time you Get hurt! As Long as your commited you Will be ok, in fairness to Stoke ive not seen any of their players go over the top of the ball since shawcross did ramsey and all pros dont set out to break other players legs.
Cracker- swans have had plenty of games when they have been agressive and battled hard, IMO they have just dipped below that standard they set for Themselves early season. We should not Get carried away with this beautiful football tag and Think thats all we need, Even Barca battle hard and put their foot in when needed, this isnt something to Get carried away with as im sure the boys Will be back on form soon enough, but as brenden said himself weeks ago we need to be 100% to compete at this level that means you have to sometimes put your foot in where it might hurt
Dead passive- good post. Stoke were not overly agressive against us and i did not see any bad tackles in the game.ive seen us play far dirtier teams this season.
Stoke are widely regarded as the dirtiest team in the league , congrats to them on this achievement , if that's there aim . We all have our opinions Norway that's mine . Teams like this whose fans take the " Good ole boys " stance toward late fouls & tackles as a way of intimitation while making fun of " proper " teams for being " Pussies " might have a different outlook if the shoe was on the other foot . Regardless of the outcome yesterday , I was glad to see Buck take Dyer off & save him from abuse . Hope Graham is ok , seen him limping around a bit . I probably wouldn't have started Allen at there ground either
I do not know what all the comments are about. Only one reply was accurate and he was at the game like me, without going into great detail we missed an open goal and the cross bar Stoke scored to set pieces and never had another attempt on target. when after our home game they were labelled ( anti football ) their supporters claimed they play diferent at home they dont. We played well without too much threat Only on one occasion at the start of second half did they close us down. They just retreated and tried to defend AT HOME
In my opinion there were plenty of tackles that had unnecessary momentum in Sundays game. They didn't go in two footed, but I think the style of tackling that Stoke are famous for should be wiped out. And I am not just talking about two footed tackles. There are some tackles that are impossible to win unless you commit a foul, and Stoke don't and didn't pull out of those tackles. They should, and if they don't there should be heavy punishment. This is why I wouldn't say I am going off on a tangent. I believe there were plenty of punishable fouls, and I believe they were not given because it was Stoke. Take Aston Villa at the Liberty. They were just as dirty, if not more, but they were punished for it with four yellow cards. And then Ashley Cole was sent off for Chelsea for a succession of niggly fouls, which in comparison to someone tackling hip height and getting a yellow (Andy Wilkinson), is a bit unfair. (I can't believe I just stuck up for Ashley Cole). There are loads of examples. Maybe you're not harking back to the 70's, but I still think that if you consider tackles which have unnecessary momentum as acceptable, we best agree to disagree.
In your opinion they had unnecessary momentum, in other peoples they were hard but fair,football is a contact sport after all and playing to the limit of the rules is a part of it,like it or not As for what is acceptable ,well its irrelevant what you and i Think leon we Are not prem refs Aged- fair comments, though seeing the game live on tv2 i had a different perspective to you.
for all the perceived shortcomings of the likes of sinclair and tremmel, both stoke goals were set pieces that should have been defended better, cut that out and you would have got a point.. the chance sinclair squandered was hit first time, and the ball was bobbling, harsh to call it a sitter though he should have done better admittedly
"Stoke are widely regarded as the dirtiest team in the league , congrats to them on this achievement , if that's there aim . We all have our opinions Norway that's mine ." cracker jack Well the Fact is that Newcastle utd are the current holders of the "dirtiest team in the league" cracker, nothing wrong with your opinion just that it happens to be factually wrong according to the fair play league table 2010-2011. You may well be proven right when the fair play table is published at the end of this season though!! which will make you factually correct!! Stoke sit 19th having kicked for an extra game than the other bottom teams like Newcastle(bottom again)Bolton,blackburn and Villa We are going off the thread a little bit here IMO but its worth remembering that Stoke didnt cheat us out of that game with rough house tactics they were just more commited in the tackle and won the personal battles first, we wernt prepared to be as commited as them, this must not be confused with foul play like some are suggesting, that wasnt the case,like with Norwich they played the ref better and played within the rules.
Here's a link to something I wrote earlier in the season http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/94646-If-anything-happens-to-Vorm
In the World Cup Final Howard Webb dished out 13 yellows and a red. Yesterday Howard Webb gave one yellow for a trip. That would suggest that Stoke weren't dishing it out as some are suggesting.
I guess that would have a lot to do with the ref's interpretation of a foul . Another ref , with a different eye ( no two are the same ) would have called a sh#tload more & to me where the problem lies . Some teams play a game within a game at prodding the ref to see how much they can get away with with late tackling & questionable fouling , Stoke just happen to be one of the best at it . The ugly truth about where the beautiful game is going is the " Win any way you can " , attitude clubs MUST take to get anywhere & stay . Money is the root of it all I'm afraid
