Suarez told to move forward

FA began Suarez judgement with the statement that context would not be taken into account merely:

if he had used language of an insulting nature with reference to the colour of a players skin. While we LFC fans believe the rest of the report contradicts that very statement let's just except that one statement as the basis/reason for the FA's Suarez guilty verdict & punishment. As technically, without bringing context into it, he referenced a players skin colour & enough people of that skin colour found it insulting he did so? Yes?

2. We LFC fans were told at the time by minority representatives, united etc fans and the media it was up to a black man to deem what he took offence at and considered racist. Yes?

So let's apply those stated "rules" to the Rio tweet. They're not my rules, I don't agree with them but they were the precedent.

Was there a reference to the colour of a players skin? Yes.

Have there been numerous black people quoted as stating the term "choc ice" is derogatory & insulting? Yes.

So by the FA's and the majority of the medias precedent Rio must be found guilty of insulting or abusive language with reference to the colour of a players skin.

Same with Terry: he was having an argument & referred to the colour of the players skin. Context according to the FA is irrelevant.

Either all 3 are judged bad by that original strict adherence to the FA's rules or all 3 cases can have context argued sufficiently to put doubt enough over racist intent in all of them.

I will repeat this until I'm blue in the face(oxygen deprivation not racist comment towards the Scottish):

Nobody but a criminal court should try a case regarding a criminal offence. If there isn't enough evidence or even that pesky thing called reasonable doubt that's just plain tough. I believe that in all three cases there was enough reasonable doubt or insufficient substantive evidence of intent that only "not guilty" could be reached. That wouldn't change what people believed to be true but it would at least be grounded in the right to a fair trial & justice which a democratic society must always maintain to avoid the tyranny of the mob: who in all 3 cases, on all sides (including the LFC one) have shown their partisanship to jobs, tribalism and special interests and the truth has mattered very little in any of the subsequent debate & discussion and has had very little to do with a real adult discussion about racism in our society.

Anyone taking a "but in this case or that case.." view is merely showing the 2 dimensional partisanship that makes the current debate, accusation, counter accusation very pointless.

because the FA didn't leave it to the courts they now have to run in circles with a baying mob waiting on every subsequent decision. Racism no longer has any relevance to the power games being played. In fact I'd argue that racism has had very little to with any of this nonsense from day one...but here, I'm just a blinkered LFC fan who believes Suarez is not guilty despite having never ever stating that to being the case. I don't know if he was or was not just like I don't know if Terry or Rio are racist or not.

The only case I accept so far is the Terry one. It went to trial in a proper court and a verdict was reached based on the available evidence that was presented. He was allowed his right to due process and a fair trial. Rio & Suarez have not been allowed the same basic rights.

 

ahh so constant lyrics about money, calling women bitches and ho's not to mention the glorification of violence are not what its about eh?

so, what is it about? peace and love?

 

Hip Hop culture is about Graffiti, B-boy dancing, DJing and MCing. Claimng a whole culture is derogatory to women purely because RAP music portrays them as bitches and hoes shows how truly ignorant you really are.

Why don't you hit yourself with some knowledge before you come here spouting **** claiming you are a fountain of knowledge, when in fact your stream is clogged...****face.

 

I think Suarez is innocent, I think Rio is innocent, he did not even say it, he just passed comment on what somebody else wrote. I personally think Terry made a racist remark, but is he a racist? Probably not.

The thing that has annoyed me most is the United fans defending Rio whilst condemning everyone else. As Frank says, if there is an accusation of racism then it is too serious to be dealt with by the F.A and should (if a case can be mounted) be dealt with by a court of law.

The Suarez case was a farce, and Suarez has to live with the consequence day to day, constantly being booed and branded as a racist. An absolute injustice and an utter disgrace.

 

Great post frank.

Re Rio&Suarez not being allowed the same basic rights as Terry, A member of the public made a complaint to the police and set the wheels of 'justice' in motion.
Because their was no public complaint and the other two were punished by a sporting governing body they are forbidden by FIFA to take their 'football related' cases to court, FIFA recommend any sporting dispute is taken to CAS. so if they did take legal proceedings against the FA FIFA would bring severe sanctions on the players and their clubs.

 

can i change your name to "sensiblefrank" ?

 

can i change your name to "sensiblefrank" ?

 

If one good thing came out of the whole Suarez/Ferdinand/Terry affair, is that it has broken the taboo and allowed us to have open discussions about the subject and broken down some of the barriers of communication, which can only be a good thing.

 

erm thats a part of the culture. one that was more apparent in the 80s than at any othertime.

its also has all the elements I listed. my point was black culture and hip hop culture are not the same which is correct.

'

 

why debate the whole thing again... rodgers just said in one way or another.. "can't wait to get you in my team but don't you dare open your mouth again about that bollocks from last season"

simply put so why not the rest of you move on. by the by, the lot fo you trying to sound in the know just sound like total old farts... seriously....

 

Great post Frank, I am pretty sure somebody would have complained to the police about Suarez as they get complaints all the time now from bitter fans.

 

With complete respect, because we want too, if you don't just browse around this thread

 

Earlier you mentioned tarring things with the same brush...which is exactly what you have done.

Hip hop is a subculture of black culture, so it being black is partially correct. Saying that all Hip hop is violent because a subculture is, is not correct.

 

But I like laughing at UIR and out of all the things he likes to spout off about whilst knowing little about it ( a very long list) racism appears to be the one he knows least about. Where else can I find pearls of wisdom like that in my sig?

 

Saying the culture of hip hop is violent is racism in itself and a wild generalisation. Oh UIR, what are you like lad?

 

Think it depends what rappers you listen too though.

There's rappers who are more political, then you've got the "gangster" ones who do indeed glorify criminal behaviour, then you've got ones who just evolve and change their music depending on what he believes the listeners want like Eminem has done succesfully.

 

1. fair enough if you want to, just like its fair enough i can point out rodgers might have a point about moving on.

2. laughing at uir is always good terrific i agree

3. no matter what some people on this thread sound like what boris johnson would sound like discussing "the hippy hop"

 

frank,

You can lay out all of the facts ad infinitum and it won't change a thing sadly. The FA are a political organisation (in the widest sense of the word) and will change regulations and interpretations to suit their own wellbeing. The decisions regarding Terry and Ferdinand will not be based upon truth but upon how the FA will appear when that decision is made.

I am sick to death of interest groups making capital of the issue; of the media making money from the issue and mindless idiots booing and chanting when they haven't got a clue! I believe that we all have the right to be offended but I am beginning to believe that we are distorting the both the law and society in general by legislating in such a way that we are now at a loss as to how to deal with it. Just as a doctor cannot dismiss a patients claim that theyare in pain (because there is no agreed way of measuring it) then how the hell are we supposed to be able to decide what a level of offence is supposed to be? Trouble is, the law is becoming so skewed that a person accused of causing offence now has to attempt to prove their innocence rather than the accuser proving significant offence!

 

saying hip hop culture and black culture is the same is wrong.

while what you stated as being part if hip hops culture is true much of it was from the early days and isnt as obvious now where violence and money are at the forefront of hip hops culture.

much of it now is about being a gangsta or a pimp. tbh thats been the case for a while now.

the dancing has left the musicians side of it and startes its own fad culture. dance groups having success in talent shows helped bring back the breakdancing/ street dancing culture but its linked less to modern hip hop than it was in the 80s. EDM equally popular with breakdancers now.

I was wrong to tar all hip hop true but its ****ing ****e. at least once upon a time the lyrics of violence were down to the artist telling a tale of their life and struggles ( not always) but now its all the same regurgitated crap.

 

It is being discussed, so it is pointless saying why don't you stop discussing it, it will draw to a natural end, just like all threads do.

So there is no real point saying it, if you don't want to comment or read, move on.