Fine if you wish the matter to drag on and on. So be it. Liverpool and Suarez are the only likely ones to come out more damaged than they are even now.
Suarez *Evidence*
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It would be pathetic to appeal now this 115 page report has come out, literally every single side has been covered. Obviously there are some debatable sides, but he been found guilty of racism and you should leave it at that.
Liverpool have had a better second half of the season in recent years, and this appeal will effect that. Surely, you just want him to get his ban over with and get playing with whatever new players you decide to sign?
Also amazes me that they believe they should decide when a thread closes on a rival page. Why keep coming back to a thread full of deluded erroneous racist lovers?
Unless of course your motives are nothing to do with accuracy, fairness & justice no matter who's involved & all about low brow tabloid encouraged tribal gutter politics poorly disguised in moral outrage ...na that's not why united fans keep coming back to a pointless thread on a rival board....
Unless of course your motives are nothing to do with accuracy, fairness & justice no matter who's involved & all about low brow tabloid encouraged tribal gutter politics poorly disguised in moral outrage ...na that's not why united fans keep coming back to a pointless thread on a rival board....
A take on the linguistic difficulties from the perspective of a (purportedly) Uruguayan Professor of Spanish at Brown University:
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showpost.php?p=6859329&postcount=1148
Compelling I think you'll agree.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showpost.php?p=6859329&postcount=1148
Compelling I think you'll agree.
The Liverpool fans motives have nothing to do with accuracy or fairness. If the shoe had been on the other foot, you would have been screaming for a massive ban for an Utd fan. Do not attempt to cloud this with an air of self righteousness. Your best player by a mile got caught using racist comments and the FA acted and you do not wish to lose him.
I'd have knocked evra clean out if he threatenmed to hit me, that would have been te end of it, Ben thatcher got an 8 game ban for knocking out Pedro Mendes with a running elbow charge
Go back read all my posts; your just plain wrong & proving my point beautifully.
And scrape your insistence on saying he was found guilty of "using racist language" proves very clearly you've relied on the tabloids to give you thought & not read the report yourself baaa baaa I say!
Edited because I somehow missed a chunk of my intended sentence!
Edited because I somehow missed a chunk of my intended sentence!
Well, I read it all.
Its a very good assessment of the process, the lack of even handedness in the treatment of the two gentlemen involved, and the poor preparation by LFC of its staff in presenting their evidence.
I still think it is necessary to appeal on two counts.
1.) The punishment is not fitting of the crime. Previous punishments have been 4 match bans. To extend it to 8 matches because they believed a better coached witness (who's lived in the UK for 6 years and is a fluent English speaker) with access to the video evidence, over a less organised witness (who's been resident for 1 year and is not yet a fluent speaker of English) who was denied access to reference to video evidence while giving evidence is both unjust and illogical. (For the hard of thinking, its to do with Evra being believed over the number of times 'negro' was said rather than Suarez)
2.) Coming to the conclusion that Evra's testimony was more reliable than Suarez's. Again, it appeared that Evra was no more reliable that Suarez, but had reference to the video evidence while explaining - almost as an aide memoire, while this was denied to Suarez in his evidence, and extending to hearsay a level of reliability which hearsay should not be afforded.
There is no dispute that the word 'negro' was used. That it is in common usage in South America without the level of acrimony seen here is clear, but this was considered irrelevant in mitigation. Interesting that discriminatory epitaphs are clearly permitted - the use of Sudac, for instance, to denigrate Suarez, has not been acted on, as Evra is yet to be charged and receive a 2 match ban for contravening FA rules, but hey, the FA can only stamp out one thing at a time.
And since the FA panel were clear that using racist terms is 'objectively' rather than 'subjectively' based (i.e. intent is apparently not required) I am looking forward to Suarez getting a second ban for racially abusing Glen Johnson, and De Gea, Hernandez, Anderson etc. will get 8 match bans for their using racial slurs in training when addressing Evra.
The whole thing is now at farce level. It would have been simple enough to just say "Said Negro, during game, 4 match ban end of story." but oh no, not the FA. They have to be whiter than white (is this allowed?) and blacken(is this allowed?) Suarez' reputation, despite his having worked with race equality groups for years, just to show the World that Blatter is a dinosaur (which, lets face it, he is, but still half the world works on kickbacks and bribery, so best not to rub noses in it, eh lads?)
Its a very good assessment of the process, the lack of even handedness in the treatment of the two gentlemen involved, and the poor preparation by LFC of its staff in presenting their evidence.
I still think it is necessary to appeal on two counts.
1.) The punishment is not fitting of the crime. Previous punishments have been 4 match bans. To extend it to 8 matches because they believed a better coached witness (who's lived in the UK for 6 years and is a fluent English speaker) with access to the video evidence, over a less organised witness (who's been resident for 1 year and is not yet a fluent speaker of English) who was denied access to reference to video evidence while giving evidence is both unjust and illogical. (For the hard of thinking, its to do with Evra being believed over the number of times 'negro' was said rather than Suarez)
2.) Coming to the conclusion that Evra's testimony was more reliable than Suarez's. Again, it appeared that Evra was no more reliable that Suarez, but had reference to the video evidence while explaining - almost as an aide memoire, while this was denied to Suarez in his evidence, and extending to hearsay a level of reliability which hearsay should not be afforded.
There is no dispute that the word 'negro' was used. That it is in common usage in South America without the level of acrimony seen here is clear, but this was considered irrelevant in mitigation. Interesting that discriminatory epitaphs are clearly permitted - the use of Sudac, for instance, to denigrate Suarez, has not been acted on, as Evra is yet to be charged and receive a 2 match ban for contravening FA rules, but hey, the FA can only stamp out one thing at a time.
And since the FA panel were clear that using racist terms is 'objectively' rather than 'subjectively' based (i.e. intent is apparently not required) I am looking forward to Suarez getting a second ban for racially abusing Glen Johnson, and De Gea, Hernandez, Anderson etc. will get 8 match bans for their using racial slurs in training when addressing Evra.
The whole thing is now at farce level. It would have been simple enough to just say "Said Negro, during game, 4 match ban end of story." but oh no, not the FA. They have to be whiter than white (is this allowed?) and blacken(is this allowed?) Suarez' reputation, despite his having worked with race equality groups for years, just to show the World that Blatter is a dinosaur (which, lets face it, he is, but still half the world works on kickbacks and bribery, so best not to rub noses in it, eh lads?)
That would be relevant except that obviously Winter does too little background work. Saying that Suarez needs to work with Anti racism initiatives shows a shocking lack of knowledge of his ongoing race equality work. Once you demonstrate such yawning gaps, you question the rest of the piece, such as "Did Henry read the 115 pages, or just skim to the summary?"
"It is also possible that Mr Evra,
who may have learned his Spanish in Spain, where the "vos" form is not used, may, when
recalling the incident in interview, have rendered Mr Suarezâs usage as the "tu" form, even
if Mr Suarez used the "vos" form."
Yet again they bend over backwards to give Evra the benefit of the doubt, whereas any similar inconsistencies and interpretations on Suarez's part are proof positive he's a fillthy, lying Gaucho in league with Beelzebub. This whole case is beyond the competence of this shower of Ferguson placemen. Take it to a crminal court where Evra can perjure himself, and get Ferguson in the dock too.
And for those saying you can't appeal the verdict, just the sentence - yes you can, in a court using balance of probabilities that is not even a proper civil court - you take it to a proper court.
This case need to go to the High Court or a criminal court and be judged on reasonable doubt. And **** the sensitivities of those wiseacre media commentators who said all the same things in the aftermath of Hillsborough. And if the FA try to bully us out of our legal and moral right to seek justice as we see fit in a democratic country then **** them too. Take them to court too for unreasonable restrictions of practice. If this committee and its workings were put under scrutiny and interregation and the procedings held in South American Spanish we'd soon see how they feel when they are judged 'unreliable' and 'inconsistent' in the manner they rushed to label Suarez.
Fight on Liverpool, no matter the outcome and the mob cries for a lynching. To fold would be the an utter betrayal of everything this club has ever stood for.
who may have learned his Spanish in Spain, where the "vos" form is not used, may, when
recalling the incident in interview, have rendered Mr Suarezâs usage as the "tu" form, even
if Mr Suarez used the "vos" form."
Yet again they bend over backwards to give Evra the benefit of the doubt, whereas any similar inconsistencies and interpretations on Suarez's part are proof positive he's a fillthy, lying Gaucho in league with Beelzebub. This whole case is beyond the competence of this shower of Ferguson placemen. Take it to a crminal court where Evra can perjure himself, and get Ferguson in the dock too.
And for those saying you can't appeal the verdict, just the sentence - yes you can, in a court using balance of probabilities that is not even a proper civil court - you take it to a proper court.
This case need to go to the High Court or a criminal court and be judged on reasonable doubt. And **** the sensitivities of those wiseacre media commentators who said all the same things in the aftermath of Hillsborough. And if the FA try to bully us out of our legal and moral right to seek justice as we see fit in a democratic country then **** them too. Take them to court too for unreasonable restrictions of practice. If this committee and its workings were put under scrutiny and interregation and the procedings held in South American Spanish we'd soon see how they feel when they are judged 'unreliable' and 'inconsistent' in the manner they rushed to label Suarez.
Fight on Liverpool, no matter the outcome and the mob cries for a lynching. To fold would be the an utter betrayal of everything this club has ever stood for.
We can all pick holes in an imperfect process. people are not seeing the wood for the trees.
The words were said in a aggressive context. They were deemed to be racist in nature. The player had to be punished. They decided on an exemplary 8 match ban.
The club and fans can scream blue murder. Can choose to fight it or accept it and move on. But one thing I am absolutely certain: the FA cannot change its position, after publishing such a detailed report, without damaging its own credibility and its campaign to stamp out racism.
The FA could have avoided this in the entirety by refusing to enter into a three-ring circus over the issue, handle it in a rapid, efficient manner and issue a 4 match ban in line with previous precedent.
However, they decided to make a political point over the matter, drag it out endlessly, and separate the findings and the publication of the report, trying to bury the latter by publishing it at 5pm on 31st December.
The FA have made an appalling mess of this and it will have to clean up this mess. Whether this is in a civil court, the Court of Arbitration in Sport, or elsewhere remains to be seen, but their mishandling should not inconvenience Liverpool Football Club or Luis Suarez beyond the reasonable and previously precedented manner.
The guy who wrote that post is Aldo Mazzucchelli, Assistant Professor in Hispanic Studies at Brown University, originally from Montevideo.
http://t.co/VGwQHKwj
http://t.co/VGwQHKwj
3.5 million people in Uruguay - He's not likely to know him. Far more likely to be upset about a perceived attack on his own homeland and culture. Such is the arrogance of the FA perceived abroad...
There is absolutely NO chance that the scousers club will take the FA to court. Not in a million years. I think that the club after consulting with their owners (who I read take their reputation for anti-racism very seriously in the US) will not appeal, will get Suarez to apologise to Evra for hurt feelings and move on.