Striker options

[Oldsparkey]

Looking back at the manner of our 11 league goals so far this season, do we need Salech up top every time?

It may seem an odd question, but his sheer size seems to count against him with refs - a bit like our past experience with Keiffer Moore. In tussles with defenders, he either gets penalised himself or doesn't get the decision he deserves.

His height gives us a target from set pieces and oompah punts from keeper and defence, but most of our goals have come from second ball open play on the ground.

I'm loathe to mention Robinson who seems a bit lost on the pitch at the moment, but the way the Colwill brothers, Willock and others are playing through defenders rather than over them, someone like Zak Davies in the No.9 role?

 

[remote]

Looking back at the manner of our 11 league goals so far this season, do we need Salech up top every time?

It may seem an odd question, but his sheer size seems to count against him with refs - a bit like our past experience with Keiffer Moore. In tussles with defenders, he either gets penalised himself or doesn't get the decision he deserves.

His height gives us a target from set pieces and oompah punts from keeper and defence, but most of our goals have come from second ball open play on the ground.

I'm loathe to mention Robinson who seems a bit lost on the pitch at the moment, but the way the Colwill brothers, Willock and others are playing through defenders rather than over them, someone like Zak Davies in the No.9 role?

An interesting question Sparkey. My view is slightly different from many on here as I don't get to games. Even watching the full 90, you don't get to see a player off the ball, away from the camera.

BBM has previously mentioned that Zak would prefer to be a 9 but is 'helping out' by playing wide.
I think I'd go for him over Robinson at present though. He's looking sharp.

Salech looks a bit frustrated. He's an out and out 9 and wants goals. I thought after his first he'd get a few, but not yet. And he's seeing others score.
He's more than just a scorer. He seems quite rounded a a player. Little touches and lay offs in the box, back to goal, linking up play, coming deep and letting players get beyond him. I've no doubt he will get goals as the season progresses.
It seems to work well with him softening them up and changes taking advantage against tiring legs.
I agree with you that he doesn't get much from the refs though.

Its a nice conundrum to have.

 

[ninian opinion]

Salach for me to start every time.

The importance of his all round hold up play and sheer presence is a factor in the effectiveness of the style of play BBM has brought in.

Arguably the reason he’s not getting the chances to score that currently are falling to others is due to his size and presence taking defenders away allowing space for others in goal scoring positions.

Robinson has had more decent chances than Salech has had so far this season; I’m confident if they had fallen to Salech he’d have converted most.

Davies for me is not a no 9. He’s a winger.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Salach for me to start every time.

The importance of his all round hold up play and sheer presence is a factor in the effectiveness of the style of play BBM has brought in.

Arguably the reason he’s not getting the chances to score that currently are falling to others is due to his size and presence taking defenders away allowing space for others in goal scoring positions.

Robinson has had more decent chances than Salech has had so far this season; I’m confident if they had fallen to Salech he’d have converted most.

Davies for me is not a no 9. He’s a winger.

I don't think Salech being on the pitch has anything to do with the effectiveness of the style BBM has brought to our game. Salech's size and presence on the pitch is a constant, and nothing to do with BBM. He'll attract defenders to him in any system.

As for holding the ball up to bring others into play, I haven't seen much evidence of that so far this season. I will say he gets unfairly treated by refs. A glaring example of that yesterday was when he was adjudged to have fouled their centre back when going in on goal. Their keeper parried it behind and it should have been a corner - nothing wrong with Salech's challenge.

On the other side of the coin was a very poor effort to get on the end of a Willock (I think) daisy cutter cross that was begging to be poked home - Zak Davies would have put that away.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

I'm with Ninian on this. If the bloody refs and linos got their acts together they would see and give so many fouls on Salech. In one first half incident their centre back had Salech's shirt up around his chest. Did they give anything? No. If they did we may see cb's being less physical with him for fear of getting cards.

And yet a few minutes later Salech did similar to their cb and the ref blew against Salech straightaway. I think goals will come for both Salech and Robinson. The latter scored 12 last season in a poor side with limited opportunities.

No way is Isaak a number 9. He is too small and poor in the air. Also while he is quick over 10 yards, he has short distance pace which he can't sustain over a longer distance. We also saw this yesterday when he made a good break, got free but was then caught and pushed out wide. Good goal though.

I wouldn't start him as a winger in the league but use him as an impact sub like yesterday.

 

[remote]

I'm with Ninian on this. If the bloody refs and linos got their acts together they would see and give so many fouls on Salech. In one first half incident their centre back had Salech's shirt up around his chest. Did they give anything? No. If they did we may see cb's being less physical with him for fear of getting cards.

And yet a few minutes later Salech did similar to their cb and the ref blew against Salech straightaway. I think goals will come for both Salech and Robinson. The latter scored 12 last season in a poor side with limited opportunities.

No way is Isaak a number 9. He is too small and poor in the air. Also while he is quick over 10 yards, he has short distance pace which he can't sustain over a longer distance. We also saw this yesterday when he made a good break, got free but was then caught and pushed out wide. Good goal though.

I wouldn't start him as a winger in the league but use him as an impact sub like yesterday.

The way we're playing this year, I don't think his size would work against him. It would be more to feet, down the channels or crosses along the ground. The boys from the back come up for corners. He's only an inch shorter than Robinson.

He'd be very different from Salech, but would pose different problems for defenders. I think he would be effective.

 

[Oldsparkey]

I'm with Ninian on this. If the bloody refs and linos got their acts together they would see and give so many fouls on Salech. In one first half incident their centre back had Salech's shirt up around his chest. Did they give anything? No. If they did we may see cb's being less physical with him for fear of getting cards.

And yet a few minutes later Salech did similar to their cb and the ref blew against Salech straightaway. I think goals will come for both Salech and Robinson. The latter scored 12 last season in a poor side with limited opportunities.

No way is Isaak a number 9. He is too small and poor in the air. Also while he is quick over 10 yards, he has short distance pace which he can't sustain over a longer distance. We also saw this yesterday when he made a good break, got free but was then caught and pushed out wide. Good goal though.

I wouldn't start him as a winger in the league but use him as an impact sub like yesterday.

So now you're relying on refs and linos to get their act together?...................

Zak's size up front is no drawback - there are plenty of examples like Aguero and Greaves who didn't need it (and I'm in no way comparing Zak to them).

I do agree, he is quick off the mark and over 10 yards if not sustained - that's exactly what you need in the box.

Got nothing against Salech at all, but you need to offer the oppossition a variation up front and that's exactly what Davies would provide.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

So now you're relying on refs and linos to get their act together?...................

Zak's size up front is no drawback - there are plenty of examples like Aguero and Greaves who didn't need it (and I'm in no way comparing Zak to them).

I do agree, he is quick off the mark and over 10 yards if not sustained - that's exactly what you need in the box.

Got nothing against Salech at all, but you need to offer the oppossition a variation up front and that's exactly what Davies would provide.

That would mean always having to play the ball out from the back as it would be absolutely pointless launching a ball towards Izaak. It is always helpful to have the option of sending it long, and sometimes necessary if the opposition are successful with their high press.

In addition, would he be able to offer the defensive support Salech, and to a lesser extent Robinson, offer from corners and set pieces? I don't think so as heading is quite low in his list of attributes.

His all round game is simply not suited to a no. 9 role.

 

[ninian opinion]

Today it’s a far cry from the football one was brought up on; 4-4-2 with wingers feeding a target striker and a tapper in.

Now it’s all about high lines, pressing, 5 at the back, inverted full backs, a no 10 etc. However for me a striker with height, strength and pace is necessary for a successful team and also as BfB rightly states is an asset in defending set pieces.

 

[remote]

Today it’s a far cry from the football one was brought up on; 4-4-2 with wingers feeding a target striker and a tapper in.

Now it’s all about high lines, pressing, 5 at the back, inverted full backs, a no 10 etc. However for me a striker with height, strength and pace is necessary for a successful team and also as BfB rightly states is an asset in defending set pieces.

Im flexible in my thinking. A big striker as an option is ok. You don't always have to use them. We've seen in this division, CBs are happy to go toe to toe with a big man. A smaller player moving them about, making them turn, pulling them away from the width of the 6 yard box might be more problematic for them.
A big forward helping out at set pieces is fine. Salech isn't as big as Rubin though.
It doesn't have to be a 9 in defence. A 10 is just as good.

A smaller striker would be an interesting set up to test the oposition with.

And as for launching the ball up field, long balls in the BBM set up go diagonal rather than straight up the middle. Nowhere near the striker.

Its a brave new world.

 

[ninian opinion]

Perhaps one could look at it another way: say we didn’t have Salech?

All throughout the summer until tomorrow night I have been praying no championship club came in for him.

If he had banged in a few maybe he’d have been targeted so it’s a blessing in disguise he hasn’t.

There may be games when BBM decides to start Robinson but I’m maintaining my opinion he should be the first choice striker.

I have faith in BBM getting the best out of Salech. I was though surprised he didn’t get 90 minutes yesterday with no game for a fortnight.

 

[remote]

Perhaps one could look at it another way: say we didn’t have Salech?

All throughout the summer until tomorrow night I have been praying no championship club came in for him.

If he had banged in a few maybe he’d have been targeted so it’s a blessing in disguise he hasn’t.

There may be games when BBM decides to start Robinson but I’m maintaining my opinion he should be the first choice striker.

I have faith in BBM getting the best out of Salech. I was though surprised he didn’t get 90 minutes yesterday with no game for a fortnight.

I agree that if you were ranking strikers, Salech is our starting striker.

Its the last few words of Sparkey's question though. Do we need him up top every time.
4 times out of 5, yes. But what about that 5th time. That's where the debate goes.

There will be times that we have to do without him.

An interesting debate around what happens then.

 

[Oldsparkey]

I agree that if you were ranking strikers, Salech is our starting striker.

Its the last few words of Sparkey's question though. Do we need him up top every time.
4 times out of 5, yes. But what about that 5th time. That's where the debate goes.

There will be times that we have to do without him.

An interesting debate around what happens then.

Exactly.

The team sheets from both clubs go in an hour before kick off and can't be changed.

With the same selection up front every time, the opposition knows exactly what they're up against and select to counter it. A Zak Davies type as an alternative up front could force opponents to change their starting gameplan if not starting personel, or even make changes earlier than planned..

I'll say again I''ve nothing against Salech at all, he's going to be a great asset as we progress.

 

[ninian opinion]

Exactly.

The team sheets from both clubs go in an hour before kick off and can't be changed.

With the same selection up front every time, the opposition knows exactly what they're up against and select to counter it. A Zak Davies type as an alternative up front could force opponents to change their starting gameplan if not starting personel, or even make changes earlier than planned..

I'll say again I''ve nothing against Salech at all, he's going to be a great asset as we progress.

“A Zac Davies type” or Zac Davies

Possibly Kellyman?

 

[remote]

Exactly.

The team sheets from both clubs go in an hour before kick off and can't be changed.

With the same selection up front every time, the opposition knows exactly what they're up against and select to counter it. A Zak Davies type as an alternative up front could force opponents to change their starting gameplan if not starting personel, or even make changes earlier than planned..

I'll say again I''ve nothing against Salech at all, he's going to be a great asset as we progress.

It could be particularly useful if you know a team has physical or imposing CBs. They come into a game wanting that physicality. At this level, are they good enough to cope with not having someone to go up against. I wouldn't expect to randomly change the 9. But selectively pick a team where you challenged the CBs in a different way.

On the flip side, if it ain't broke......

 

[Oldsparkey]

“A Zac Davies type” or Zac Davies

Possibly Kellyman?

Let's just start with what we've got before we get Jarrod Bowen back............

 

[remote]

Let's just start with what we've got before we get Jarrod Bowen back............

 

[Oldsparkey]

“A Zac Davies type” or Zac Davies

Possibly Kellyman?

..........not at 6' 3".........

 

[remote]

..........not at 6' 3".........

Looking at his physique, even at 6'3", he's no target man.
And 6" to tall to be a Davies type.

It'll be interesting where he gets played and how quickly he comes up to speed.
BBM admitted Osho will find it difficult to break in to the current back 4.
Kellyman will have a similar challenge up front.

He seems to be flexible as to where he plays, a feature BBM has said will be important for incomings (not sure how that applies to Trott).
With the players we've got, there aren't many that only play one position. It supports his view regarding sticking to a smallish squad.
Salech is a 9, full stop. I wouldn't suggest playing Ruben as anything but a 10. Ashford is a wing. Outside those and the keepers, things seem quite flexible. Not sure if Lawor is anything but a CB though. Don't think hes played full back.

Even if they don't start in a specific position, it means they can 'roam' during a game. Joel pops up all over the park. Everyone seems comfortable getting forward and being on the ball.
How refreshing when compared to recent times.

(There I go, getting carried away again. )

 

[irishbluebird]

With regards to Salech, I think there’s something not quite right with him. Watching him in the warm up on Saturday he seemed subdued, like he might have an injury or maybe a bug. Or he’s just frustrated about not scoring so much. Mind you the treatment he gets from opposition defenders is diabolical. The game has changed with all the shirt pulling, pushing and cynical fouls and the refs don’t help. Hopefully he’ll start finding the net more regularly soon.