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Grand Prix thread STC SAUDI ARABIAN GRAND PRIX 2021

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Dec 1, 2021.

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Who will cross the line first?

Poll closed Dec 3, 2021.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    72.7%
  2. Max Verstappen

    9.1%
  3. Valtteri Bottas

    9.1%
  4. Sergio Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Lando Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Daniel Ricciardo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Pierre Gasly

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Charles Leclerc

    9.1%
  9. Carlos Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    Even worse he is an Australian weasel

    They have proved time and time again they do not have the word sportsmanship in their vocabulary

    The ball tampering in cricket

    And even worse an Australian video referee ruling out our try against New Zealand in the rugby World Cup final, I know it was very borderline but I still believe an un biased ref would have let it stand, we might not have won the cup but that decision still annoys me today
     
    #501
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  2. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder if Liberty are instructing him on how to 'create the spectacle and keep it going at all costs'. Not sure they would have been able to influence Charlie in the same way. That said maybe I am looking back at Charlie with rose tinted glasses?
    To be fair to Masi the 'here is my offer' issue wasn't as bad as it sounded o me, poor choice of words. It was more like accept this or it goes to the stewards... if the race had continued Max would have been told to let Lewis past and probably would have brake tested him earlier :) That aspect of Masi was OK by me it's just him taking it out of stewards hands that's iffy although maybe that has been happening for a long time? It's the constant issue of not having penalties actually make any difference that I don't like.
     
    #502
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  3. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    I hate Masi and , much as it pains me to type this , Brundle said this is the first year we have heard these transmissions and that they may have happened before .
     
    #503
  4. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    For sure Liberty are supportive of this. They can't believe their luck. After last year, no doubt a difficult year, they have this bonanza and they want to cash in on it. Undoubtedly it is bringing new fans to the sport and undoubtedly the Merc 1,2 was boring. I just wish it wasn't done with the thug driving permission they have allowed. They will struggle to reign Max in after this, they have released the inner Max and it won't go quietly. Imagine if the brake test had resulted in an awful accident. And why Max late braking on the inside of a corner then results in 'well Lewis went off the track too' comments, where else can he go and avoid a collision? Masi has lost me, I dislike his approach of appeasement and if he is doing it at the request of Liberty it shows he is a weasel even more.
     
    #504
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  5. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    Is your original helmet the same as mine
     
    #505
  6. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    To me it seems Masi wanted Hamilton to win. He should of stayed out of it and left it to the stewards to referee. Instead he made deals and threats.

    I mean He even forgot Ocon was there.

    It felt like the race was rigged which is really worrying.
     
    #506
  7. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure about the Hamilton bit ( Lewis got a warning about pushing another other driver off , when not long ago he MASI was all for letting them race ) but I agree I’m sure he forgot about Ocon .

    Also the 10 sec penalty Max is a joke . He brakes tested Lewis , I bet they don’t remember that ruling when it suits next time .

    so I don’t think he was favouring Lewis , but he is inconsistent and fing useless !
     
    #507
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  8. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe he favoured Lewis, no evidence of that whatsoever. In a post I made a coupe of weeks ago I stated I was convinced they are engineering a desired outcome (not my exact words). I was criticised for being 'convinced' and I agreed and toned it down to concerned. I am now convinced and make no apology for it.
     
    #508
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  9. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    He's a lucky boy.... It could have been a disqualification or a ban, I'm pretty sure. They really let him off the hook the more I think about it.
     
    #509
  10. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    Depends how small yours was is
     
    #510

  11. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    For me, F1 has allowed three problems to fester, which personally I feel was a deliberate choice made to improve "the show", ignoring the harm done to "the sport".

    1. Driving standards which are an absolute mess and applied unevenly.

    I'm not sure anyone knows what the rules are on overtaking. I think the most accurate summary is "Do what you like as long as there's no contact". I couldn't tell you when you have to leave space, when you're entitled to space, when you can move twice and when not. It changes week to week and driver to driver. Can you imagine Mazepin or Tsunoda brake-testing someone? The FIA would be criticised if they weren't banned for the rest of the season. It shouldn't matter who you are, or where you are in the Championship, when applying penalties.

    2. Penalties that are too lenient.

    A 5 second penalty means absolutely nothing 90% of the time, especially after the final stops are complete. It encourages aggressive, over the line driving. Why wouldn't you try a mad move when the worst outcome is you finish where you currently are? This "let them race", attitude being pushed by Red Bull is clever propaganda, because they know "let them race" has benefited Max every time. He's got so much less to lose and has consistently made moves Hamilton just wouldn't.

    3. Feeding the Verstappen Ego

    He can't do wrong. He genuinely doesn't believe anything he's done this season has been wrong, and Horner, Marko, etc back him up at every turn. He's complaining that the penalty this weekend was unfair because he didn't get one in Brazil. Can't recognise that he got away with one in Brazil! He's been enabled time after time this season, by Red Bull management as well as the FIAs failure to clamp down on his driving on multiple occasions. Imola, Barcelona, Brazil, Saudi he got away with it, and when the boot was on the other foot at Silverstone he cries foul. He's driving way over the limit, and as well as being dangerous and unfair, it's robbed us of what could have been classic racing.

    The best battle yesterday was Ocon vs Bottas, and we missed pretty much all of it thanks to poor TV direction. Hamilton and Verstappen couldn't produce that kind of racing, because Hamilton has no trust in Verstappen, and Verstappen has no interest in racing fairly. There's been one occasion all season where the pair of them could dice for position over more than a single corner (Silverstone) and that still ended in tears. We had Hamilton and Verstappen swap positions 5,6 times in Jeddah? The only one worth watching was Verstappen on the second restart. The rest was unsporting or involved steward's intervention. This Championship is going to be remembered for going down to the wire, but the racing has generally been dire..
     
    #511
  12. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
    #512
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  13. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    If only Max could take a few lessons from how hard, yet fair, Hamilton and Alonso battled in Hungary.
     
    #513
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  14. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Most would agree with your comments. It very much concerns me that Max has been allowed too much dirty driving. There are rules, they are written down. Rewriting the rules would require teams to agree I believe, it is not the perogative of just a few or even one. Stewards should always have a say. It is not for Masi to determine unilaterally. I keep saying it, I see a very nasty accident coming up at some point, caused by but maybe not involving Max. What Max doesn't appreciate is that he is a good enough driver not to have to drive dirty.

    I was looking at the constructors prize money, in 2016 there was $20m difference between being 1st vs 2nd in the constructors championship. On top of that, you have to assume they can charge more to their sponsors for being the top constructors. So if Max takes Lewis out at the next race, Redbull make at least $20m and probably $30m+ with 5 years inflation and sponsorship bonus payments. Hmmm, not for me to judge whether this is an incentive for Max in the next race.
     
    #514
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  15. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Completely agree, although it's not limited to the older generation. Norris and Russell have both received praise from Hamilton and Alonso, Gasly and Sainz generally races cleanly, Ocon has been much better compared to his hotheaded Force India days.
     
    #515
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  16. Mr.B

    Mr.B Well-Known Member

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    My hope for the final race...
    • Max to get sick in the next few days, and be too ill to race/drive into Hamilton.
    • Watch him & Horner crying foul because Liberty won't postpone/cancel the race for him. (Assuming Liberty wouldn't do that.)
    • See Red Bull manage to negotiate a penalty that has Lewis starting at the back of the grid, compounded by a 30 second penalty and a drawing pin on his seat.
    • Sit back & watch Lewis nevertheless have a spectacular drive through the field and into the points.
    • Watch Perez try to take Lewis out, fail to do it, and instead wreck his own car and the other Red Bull (being driven by Jake Paul, whose social media following has managed to get him a super licence at Liberty's request)
    • Podium of Alonso, Kimi and Hamilton, in any order

    Surely not too much to ask?
     
    #516
  17. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Alonso in a front running car would teach Max what all round driving skills look like- he’s been excellent.
     
    #517
  18. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Williams / Aston Martin - Alpha Tauri might have some part to play in the outcome ?


    I don’t want it to happen , but you never know …..
     
    #518
  19. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    I think you do Checo a disservice in slurring his character! I think he has more self-respect than this and wouldn't be willing to try and intentionally take out another driver. Here's hoping anyway, love the rest of this.
     
    #519
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  20. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Another rant - sorry. Made the mistake of watching the post-race drivers press conference. Max's defence of his own defence is infuriating - we both went off, so I don't understand why I am being punished. Come off it Max. You're surely not that stupid, and we certainly aren't, so stop ****ing insulting us by using such a pathetic line.

    Of course Hamilton went off, because if he'd tried to turn into the corner around the outside - which he could have done given he was ahead and had control over his car having braked at a normal point - he'd have T-boned your car taking you both out of the race. We all know this is exactly what you'd have preferred because you don't want to try and win this championship with any degree of self-respect, but cut the pretense. Thankfully the stewards, in this race at least, weren't having any of your BS.

    Grow up. Get new management. Get friends that speak hard truths to you.
     
    #520
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