Spurs Destination?

[Spurf]

Spurs are on a journey that started with Jol was diverted by Ramos and put back on track by Harry. Now with AVB it is beginning to look like we can continue that journey. The journey that will show us in the next few seasons whether we can become the Spurs that Bill Nich would want or just the pretenders that we have been for many years.

This journey could lead us to a few cup successes, that is in the Spurs tradition or it could lead to the highs we achieved in the 1960's. The other alternative of course is that this is as good as it gets and we will just continue to hover around the top 8 without ever quite making the break through. So how close are we?

My subjective view is that we are pretty close. The difference this season IMO is that we have still have the flair in the team most notably Bale and Lennon but we have added organisation and a much needed habit of closing down the opposition. Players like Sandro, Parker and Dembele in midfield and Vertonghen, Caulker and Kaboul in defence add the steel that is needed in a winning side.

I am going to list the players we have that IMO are good enough to be in a league winning side.

Lloris
Kaboul
Vertonghen
Caulker
Assou-Ekotto
Parker
Sandro
Dembele
Bale
Lennon

That's 10 players, so if I am right we only need one or two more top flight players to make sure we reach the desired destination.

? Over to you, do you agree or am I over rating the quality of the players listed?

 

[notsosmartspur]

or am I over rating the quality of the players listed?

No mate, as we are most if not all in agreement, a playmaker and a quality striker away, that suit the intended system I should add. Its the management denial of this thats the worry, or is the open (baffling) denial a smokescreen diplomatic answer for problems behind the scenes...Levy and his wallet? or some other non-entity in the way!

If you look at the chances created, is does raise the question of the need for a playmaker...more chances?...how about putting away the ones we already make?

 

[Spurlock]

Id say Caulker is the weakest player in that list..so that says something. People will probably look at it from an individual players perspective. however football is a team game so that team is looking very good.

Basically we are a right back short? id agree that Walker is our weak link.his not on the ball with his job.

 

[Spurlock]

im honestly thinking Levy and his wallet is the problem....we have everything ready to go..but we need the moola and Levy for his deep pockets seems to have small arms.

i do undertand our stadium aspirations etc..however still its down to Levy and his wallet which is between us where we are and really becoming dangerous

 

[Spurf]

I think Walker and Naughton have the potential but are not there yet. It takes longer to learn the art of defending than any other position in the game IMO. That's why I rate Caulker very highly because of the level he plays at for such a young man.

 

[Wandering Yid]

I've just done the same, and came up with the exact same list of players with the addition of Dempsey.

Lloris, so far, is the best keeper I have seen in a Spurs shirt (I'm only 25).
Our defence is as good as any in the league, the one weakness being Walker probably.
I'd say the strongest midfields of all the top 5 sides are very evenly matched, with perhaps Chelsea and City edging it.
Our attack is where we are being let down, no consistency, no plan B, no solo match winner, we are miles behind the Manchester clubs in this department.

 

[Roo]

we're in danger of this thread turning into another conversation about a playmaker and a striker!

I think Walker can be added to that list. He's not having a good season, but we've seen how good he can be. he just needs to find that form again.

It's no different to lennon really. until this season, lennon has been hot and cold and incredibly frustrating. Kyle will find form soon and on his day he's a top rightback good enough to play at international level.

but we need a playmaker and a striker!

 

[Spur of the Moment]

Despite my criticism of him most of this season, I would still include Walker. Naughton unfortunately doesn't look like he will be anything more than a journeyman pro. We also have a 2nd keeper in Friedel good enough for at least this season.
However, I would include Ade in the list. He may be going through a poor patch, but the guy has special talent and last year showed that he can regarded as one of the best forwards around. Bit too early to write him off IMHO.

 

[Boss]

Spurs are on a journey that started with Jol was diverted by Ramos and put back on track by Harry. Now with AVB it is beginning to look like we can continue that journey. The journey that will show us in the next few seasons whether we can become the Spurs that Bill Nich would want or just the pretenders that we have been for many years.

This journey could lead us to a few cup successes, that is in the Spurs tradition or it could lead to the highs we achieved in the 1960's. The other alternative of course is that this is as good as it gets and we will just continue to hover around the top 8 without ever quite making the break through. So how close are we?

My subjective view is that we are pretty close. The difference this season IMO is that we have still have the flair in the team most notably Bale and Lennon but we have added organisation and a much needed habit of closing down the opposition. Players like Sandro, Parker and Dembele in midfield and Vertonghen, Caulker and Kaboul in defence add the steel that is needed in a winning side.

I am going to list the players we have that IMO are good enough to be in a league winning side.

Lloris
Kaboul
Vertonghen
Caulker
Assou-Ekotto
Parker
Sandro
Dembele
Bale
Lennon

That's 10 players, so if I am right we only need one or two more top flight players to make sure we reach the desired destination.

? Over to you, do you agree or am I over rating the quality of the players listed?

Won't disagree about the players posted being able to fit into a title winning squad, yet you could look at the goons, everton, even the mousers squad and name players that could fit into a title winning squad, yet in this country, to win a title you need players such as

RVP
Rooney
Tevez
Ageuro

We can't invest 25-40 million and sign a real world class talent at his peak, as our limiations (and the way the club is run) only allow us to sign players with a certain re-sell value, or if the manager is desperate for a certain player such as parker, then Levy may realise you can't always buy footballers with a re-sell value if you want to step up a gear.

This is all "great" if we're happy to be a club that challenges for top four, possibly 3rd if we have a great season, yet in terms of the title we're years behind challenging.

However our approach could bring us a cup, no doubt about that, as we have enough quality to win an FA Cup or possibly challenge for the Europa League (if we solve certain issues), but the bigger clubs invest in players to win the big trophies, while we invest in the future and keeping the books in order, so we have our limitations.

 

[Spurf]

Despite my criticism of him most of this season, I would still include Walker. Naughton unfortunately doesn't look like he will be anything more than a journeyman pro. We also have a 2nd keeper in Friedel good enough for at least this season.
However, I would include Ade in the list. He may be going through a poor patch, but the guy has special talent and last year showed that he can regarded as one of the best forwards around. Bit too early to write him off IMHO.

I am not writing him off but we need a striker of the highest quality to make the difference. That's why Bill Nich broke the transfer record to sign Greaves, it's why SAF signed Van Persie. It's why players like Klinsmann, make all the difference can you imagine him at the front of this team! I don't think Ade is quite in that bracket.

 

[Spurlock]

all them players are game changers,Boss...they dont always play to the top of their game..but when they are in the mood then they are untouchable..thats the mentality we need to seek out...Bale shows these signs.....but who could we get realistically that shows these traits? Cavani,Falcao not happening..... id have added Suarez in that list...he is absolute class and maybe the only one we could tempt away....on a pure footballing basis...dont know the ins n outs of his contract.

Suarez upfront and we would have at least 10 more points.

 

[Boss]

No mate, as we are most if not all in agreement, a playmaker and a quality striker away, that suit the intended system I should add. Its the management denial of this thats the worry, or is the open (baffling) denial a smokescreen diplomatic answer for problems behind the scenes...Levy and his wallet? or some other non-entity in the way!

If you look at the chances created, is does raise the question of the need for a playmaker...more chances?...how about putting away the ones we already make?

Do you often find the stats say we created tons of chances, but when asked to name the clear cut chances, they don't jump out? this is why I question these stats as are they attempts on goal (form anywhere) or are they suggesting we create blatant clear cut chances and fail to convert?

 

[Spur of the Moment]

I am not writing him off but we need a striker of the highest quality to make the difference. That's why Bill Nich broke the transfer record to sign Greaves, it's why SAF signed Van Persie. It's why players like Klinsmann, make all the difference can you imagine him at the front of this team! I don't think Ade is quite in that bracket.

Fair enough Spurf, and I agree that we need another top striker. Just looking at the 10 on your list and your original statement about those good enough to be in a PL winning side: on that basis, Ade would qualify.

 

[Wandering Yid]

Won't disagree about the players posted being able to fit into a title winning squad, yet you could look at the goons, everton, even the mousers squad and name players that could fit into a title winning squad, yet in this country, to win a title you need players such as

RVP
Rooney
Tevez
Ageuro

We can't invest 25-40 million and sign a real world class talent at his peak, as our limiations (and the way the club is run) only allow us to sign players with a certain re-sell value, or if the manager is desperate for a certain player such as parker, then Levy may realise you can't always buy footballers with a re-sell value if you want to step up a gear.

This is all "great" if we're happy to be a club that challenges for top four, possibly 3rd if we have a great season, yet in terms of the title we're years behind challenging.

However our approach could bring us a cup, no doubt about that, as we have enough quality to win an FA Cup or possibly challenge for the Europa League (if we solve certain issues), but the bigger clubs invest in players to win the big trophies, while we invest in the future and keeping the books in order, so we have our limitations.

I would argue that it's possible to get a striker of the required quality without having to pay 25-40 million for them. It's about getting the right fit. Ba, for example, would be of the required standard and cost a fraction of that price. Llorente and Huntelaar are said to be available for very cheap, there are bargain signings out there.

 

[Spurlock]

why do i doubt Liorente? Ba on the other hand....

 

[Spur of the Moment]

all them players are game changers,Boss...they dont always play to the top of their game..but when they are in the mood then they are untouchable..thats the mentality we need to seek out...Bale shows these signs.....but who could we get realistically that shows these traits? Cavani,Falcao not happening..... id have added Suarez in that list...he is absolute class and maybe the only one we could tempt away....on a pure footballing basis...dont know the ins n outs of his contract.

Suarez upfront and we would have at least 10 more points.

There are some players who no matter how talented they are, I could not bear to see in a Spurs shirt. Suarez is pretty much top of my list in that category of current players. Historically, Keegan would have fallen into that group.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Do you often find the stats say we created tons of chances, but when asked to name the clear cut chances, they don't jump out? this is why I question these stats as are they attempts on goal (form anywhere) or are they suggesting we create blatant clear cut chances and fail to convert?

A chance is a chance, you're in front of the oppo's goal, its whether the players involved can do anything with it, a chance doesn't have to be a clear cut one-on-one imo.

Sky's shots on and off target were about right as were corners...all chances!

I'm not relying on it btw, our eyes are good enough to see the chances wasted every week.

 

[Spurlock]

There are some players who no matter how talented they are, I could not bear to see in a Spurs shirt. Suarez is pretty much top of my list in that category of current players. Historically, Keegan would have fallen into that group.

but we can have idiots like Brown,forget his first name a nasty basterd who cant play any type of football or players like Sol Campbell for their two faced nature?

id have Suarez in the team anyday..hes a class act with the ball and is the type of player other players love to have on their side...got agression..fights for the cause....will fight your battles on the pitch all day long....and lets not forget his immense talent.... Perfect player to play alongside.

 

[Boss]

I would argue that it's possible to get a striker of the required quality without having to pay 25-40 million for them. It's about getting the right fit. Ba, for example, would be of the required standard and cost a fraction of that price. Llorente and Huntelaar are said to be available for very cheap, there are bargain signings out there.

Of course you don't need to always spend 25-40 million, as we have proved we can sign players of that potential for much less, such as Berba & Modric, yet the reason I mentioned the fee, was to make the point of buying such players at their peak, or not focusing on re-sell value, but viewing the player as what is required to win big trophies.

Do we want to ve a club that finds Modric, Berba, Bale, Dembele etc before the bigger clubs get in, help them grow as players and sell, or do we want to be a club that can have these type of players in the squad & sign a world class player at his peak? this is why I believe we're years behind Man Utd and being able to challenge for the title.

Also, I respect your views but Llorente and Huntelaar are IMO not the standard I had in mind.

 

[Boss]

A chance is a chance, you're in front of the oppo's goal, its whether the players involved can do anything with it, a chance doesn't have to be a clear cut one-on-one imo.

Sky's shots on and off target were about right as were corners...all chances!

I'm not relying on it btw, our eyes are good enough to see the chances wasted every week.

Fair enough Notso, i just view it differently as this year we're playing a more dominant/high game so I think it stands to reason we are going to be higher up the pitch for longer periods, have a high level of possession and take more shots, yet I still see us lacking real creative talent to create clear cut chances.