Spare Parts (F1 odds and ends)

A couple of things I don't like about those penalties...
Some of them are clearly never going to happen (FIA is not going to suspend a team from F1 or exclude from WDC/WCC.)
Others are too open to behind-closed-doors haggling e.g. to minimise points deductions or reductions in budget caps.
The penalties have to be something that’s clear to everyone, embarrassing to team sponsors, and difficult to sidestep.

Maybe something like “for each percentage overspend, an automatic 2-position deduction in grid position at every race”.
5 percent over budget? Next year, the highest you’ll be able to start in any race is 11th. (Obviously Red Bull have enough superiority this season that they could still win, but surely the reputation impact would be so public that sponsors would run for cover?)

Or maybe “for each percentage overspend, a race where both cars must serve a 10 second stop&go penalty in the final 10 laps”
5 percent over budget? Next year, there will be 5 races where both your cars must serve a stop & go penalty within the final 10 laps.

F1 might even like them because they'd create added drama/excitement in the races.

Ok, they're probably bad ideas, but it has to be something that’s difficult for teams to haggle down (or to sidestep with some smoke & mirrors).

 

This is going to be very messy.

Red Bull will have some complexities or nuances in their spend that will lend itself to interpretation of overspend but won’t be able to be absolutely proven outright. It will be like the old Benneton traction control!

Frankly, I’d make an utter example of them because of the cost cap is breached without severe penalties, then just take it away as it is worthless. It’s stopping innovation at the moment for the teams that are complying by the rules, whilst Red Bull just do it anyway and try some accounting tricks. What a farce that RBR are able to develop what they want whilst Merc and Ferrari are stuck with lap time left on the table to ensure they don’t overspend.

Interestingly- Mercedes are apparantly 10kg overweight according to Toto and can’t make a lightweight chassis this season within budget. That sound like the biggest win RBR have had and may also explain some of the straight line performance of Merc against Honda.

You just know the FIA will produce BS penalties that don’t actually affect the championships.

 

I agree that any penalties need to be seen as a deterrent for future breaches and as a punishment. Why does the over 5% breach not have any limitation on tunnel and CFT time but under 5% does, seems silly to rule that penalty out?

I do think Red Bull have almost already stated that they have only accounted for parts fitted to the cars - so no cost for spares???? The extra problem will be that I am sure what ever 'accounting' method they used last year they will use this year, not even counting the gains made in 2021 that flow through, so IF they broke rules last year then they will this year!!!
I thought I remembered that in 2020 they were trialling the cap system or did that get binned due to Covid?

To a degree I hope it's all above board otherwise the FIA are just going to look so stupid and incapable of managing the sport!

 

Why is it 'they possibly breached it' and not 'they have breached it'

The FIA have not even released the results yet so where is this coming from?

I'll wait and see what the actual figures are.

 

I am reading these comments, trying not to be bias. Given the controversy last year, were the title was stolen it would be justice if Redbull lost the DWC but I can't see that being the case, it frankly would bring disrepute to the sport. I think Horner's excuse will be accepted, if the parts unused truely do add up to the overspend. Of course, mass production of the parts reduces their cost of production so there is perhaps some saving inappropriately apportioned as a result. And who counted the unused parts to check they were in fact unused, I bet no one.
But why has it taken 9.5 months to produce these figures. I worked for international corporates who produced their accounts in much less time. WDC and WCC titles should not be awarded till budgets are verified and a maximum 2 to 3 months should be allowed for the accounts, including any DD by independent auditors. Then award the titles at the end of February, avoiding controversy.
The FIA are far too weaselly.

 

I've been having a very brief look at the Budget Cap regs: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/formula_1_-_financial_regulations_-_iss_9_-_2022-02-18.pdf

I have noticed a few little things:

Gas, Electricity and Water Bills are excluded from the cap. So when teams where complaining about utility costs increasing it has no effect on their budget cap!
Staff Bonuses up to 20% are excluded!

Section: 4.1, f, B PG11. the cost of an item of Unused Inventories must not be recognised in the Reporting Period - So that sort of suggests if you manufacture parts but don't use them then they don't count. Which seems to be what Horner has been saying for a few months!

I would be surprised if any penalties are handed out IF anyone has breached either the sub 5% or greater than 5%.

 

Ahh, but, did they really manufacture those unused parts or did they secretly manufacture another part they really did use...who knows? I am with you, this will blow over.

 

The thing is, even if RBR have broke the budget cap significantly, we all know that there will be absolutely no significant punishment. The product comes before the sport.

What I do hope is that everything is out in the open without ambiguity. I'm sick of them hiding things.

 

If it can’t be policed, if it isn’t being followed, then either DSQ teams OR abolish the cap.

As it stands, it appears we have a weird, artificially led championship where it could have been closer if the competition broke the rules in the same way as the accused. That’s crap for the show.

If we don’t police it, and there is no consequence, then let teams develop without the cap.

Id prefer a cap of sorts, but it is blatantly being played with.

 

Scrap it... It will always be open to abuse, if teams break the rules (well, if the big teams break the rules) there will be no sanction as they're not going to punish the golden geese. It's going to wind up like financial fair play in football.

 

Imo just wait for 5th October for the certification.

With certain people, aka wolff briefing hacks to name the teams and then just saying 2 teams blah blah the authorities have to publish their findings and only then will we know the score.

I find wolff saying it's an open secret in the paddock when he's the one spreading it about hilarious.

What do we fans know about the thing but what certain people want us to know and if red bull are certified then what? Do merc put in a protest?

Can they admit someone has briefed them with confidential data on a other team?

On the other hand if red bull have pulled a fast one with allocation of monies, for example to engine development factory they are doing then how do teams protest it if certified?

The thing here is this..... merc pulled a fast one bring a revolutionary car that has flopped since. People thought it broke the regs. Aston brought a wing that broke the spirit but not the letter of law but they were fine. So if red bull have found a way round the financial rules and get certified the what can be done?

The whole gird whinged and whined about planks all summer and red bull turned up quicker than ever. We could well have the same thing again, lots of whinging

 

There is provision within the rules that say something like ' if any new evidence comes to light within 3 months of certification it will be considered!'

I think we must remember F1 Teams are masters of interpreting the rules in a way that benefits them. The financial rules will be the same game of cat and mouse.

 

It impacts travel costs. Cost of shipping is included as I understand it.

 

Going for standard grid process. We are now officially into 2 hour race not 61 laps.

This is highly highly likely to be delayed and delayed to have as dry a track as is possible and a 50% points situation by the end.

 

FIA delayed the financial budget cap certification till next Monday (10th)!!! So we will have another race weekend of speculation!

 

They won’t do anything anyway .

Can’t remember who said if it can’t be dealt with properly , then scrap it , well I agree with them .







Formula 1's governing body has delayed the publication of its inquiries into whether any team breached the sport's budget cap last year.

The FIA told F1 teams last week that it planned to issue certificates of compliance or otherwise on 5 October.

But the FIA said in a statement on Wednesday that it was "a long and complex process that is ongoing".

It would be "concluded to enable the release of the certificates on Monday, 10 October," the statement said.

The delay is likely to infuriate the teams, who are all in Japan ahead of this weekend's Grand Prix at Suzuka.

Japan is eight hours ahead of UK time and teams had been waiting for an announcement of the FIA's results so they could issue their responses. The statement was not released until just before 16:00 in the UK, which is midnight in Japan.

And the new publication date means that it will be made public whether teams have been found in compliance on the day most are flying back to Europe from Japan.

Wednesday's delay is the fourth time the FIA has given teams a date only to push it back.

At first, teams were told the results would be published on Friday 30 September, then Monday 3 October, then 5 October.

• Budget cap comments 'unacceptable' - Red Bull
• Verstappen on verge of title despite 'terrible' weekend

The issue has become a contentious one in F1, after Mercedes and Ferrari said at the Singapore Grand Prix last weekend that it was an open secret within the sport that two teams had broken the $145m (£114m) cap.

Neither explicitly named the teams in question, although Mercedes F1 team principal Toto Wolff did refer to specific allegations that have been made about Red Bull.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner reacted angrily to his rivals' interventions, saying he regarded the remarks as defamatory and would take further action if they were not withdrawn.

Mercedes and Ferrari rejected Horner's request.

Horner insisted that he was "absolutely confident" in Red Bull's submission to the FIA, adding: "We believe we are comfortably within the cap."

The FIA said: "There has been significant and unsubstantiated speculation and conjecture in relation to this matter, and the FIA reiterates that until it is finalised, no further information will be provided.

"The FIA also reiterates that any suggestion that FIA personnel have disclosed sensitive information is equally baseless."

There are two levels of offence according to F1's financial regulations - 'minor' and 'material'.

The dividing line between the two is 5% of the cap, or $7.25m last year.

Senior sources have told BBC Sport that if any team is found to have been in breach last year, the offence is likely to be minor

Potential penalties for a minor offence include a reprimand; deduction of constructors' or drivers' championship points for the year in question; suspension; limitations on aerodynamic or other testing; a reduction of that team's cost cap.

For a material breach, the possibility of exclusion from the championship is included.

The budget cap reduced to $140m in 2022 and is coming down to $135m in 2023. The exchange rate is fixed to the pound at a specific level - so the cap is not affected by the recent reduction in the value of sterling.

 

Article in the Times today, Lewis taking the same hard line on the budget cap saying Redbull kept bringing upgrades, that if Merc had given a second floor upgrade after Silverstone, at a likely cost of 300,000 it would have changed the outcome last year. He is demanding the same hard line as Toto.
Toto is also reported Lewis is suggesting he might stay for another 5 years yet which Lewis is not denying, extract of article below.

Toto Wolff, the team principal, said last week that his star driver had expressed a desire to stay in the sport for another five years.

When asked about those comments, Hamilton replied: “Possibly, yes, I’m feeling good. I love what I’m doing. We have a lot of work to do, a lot to achieve still. So I’m not planning on going anywhere any time soon.”

 

I read it as the same merc strategy, sending out people to keep harping on it.

they are very clear in not naming red bull while naming red bull. Hamilton refers to it as "the other car" kept bring upgrades.

I found it rather funny given hamilton took not 1 but two new engines and passed the field so comments like they took upgrades at silverstone for 0.3seconds and never mentioning brazil engines and penalties rather convenient.

whatever else we might think about the screw job in the end its patently clear mercs had a serious engine advantage all of a sudden and took new parts over and above (and took the penalties to do so, ad did others) that cap to ensure they were by far the fastest car at the end.

I'm still going to wait for the actual certifications or otherwise.

As for hamilton staying in, great news. we need more hard racers not less and we need more skills not video game skills.

 

FIA should be strict but not be Strict on other things according to Hamilton....

Again I'll await the truth before making judgements

 

Nyck de vries to alpha tauri next year (official) Only two seats remain for next season.