Spare Parts (F1 odds and ends)

The stuff I have read seems to suggest Audi PU will not be same as Red Bull/Porsche one!!! They were suggesting that the 2 projects will be completely separate!
Seems like a massive extra cost to have 2 completely separate PU's although maybe Red Bull have already a good base to build from (maybe with Honda IP that they bought?) so maybe the 'Porsche PU' will actually just be a Red Bull PU branded unit.

 

Thing is though, didn’t the original transfer of Honda IP to Red Bull unwind itself when Honda U-turned and agreed to support the Red Bull team until 2026?

Would be wild if Audi and Porsche did separate programmes!

Should really shake up the grid in terms of supply for both customer and works perspectives!

I’ve got a feeling we are gonna see Mercedes scale down. Can’t explain why, but I just see it. Renault are likely to find another customer, Audi and Porsche will power at least one team each, Ferrari presumably will keep Haas, and McLaren don’t strike me as glued to Mercedes, especially as Aston Martin could become their (Merc) default works team with Totos links IF Mercedes team ever steps away from the sport.

 

In the end intellectual property relating to internal combustion is largely worthless in the next 10 years.

Kers and so forth might be different but for a car maker there's only two shows in town..electric and hydrogen and both are really electrical motor drive trains.

F1 is headed down the road of "sustainable" fuels so is about to become totally disconnected from the former claim.of.relecance to future cars.

The era when active suspensions, traction control tools driver aids and so forth is now firmly in the past in terms of transfer to.road cars.

Ground effect and aero around sidepods is not sadly that needed on road cars

 

In a way, I think F1 needs to step away from the “road car relevance” too. It needs to feel unique, special, and fast.

I’d love to see some naturally aspirated engines on sustainable fuel.

 

It was a very early 90s thing wasn't it.

The tech in a williams was largely unheard off when you think about the road cars trundling about. Even super cars of the time.

Now a days the future of cars is very clear and its nothing to do with f1. F1 cannot okay sustainability card as it flies 20 cars and all their crew about the planet. The sequence of races makes shipping impossible etc etc.

If they really wanted to be sustainable 16 races max with the possibility to drive to a European calender and then switch it to non European and such.

 

If F1 maintains relevance to road cars then perhaps they would need to be driverless, not sure that is a good plan for F1. I like the idea of multiple manufacturer teams, livens up the grid potentially. All the time F1 promotes a brand of car the manufacturers will participate.

We know China is a big market but the political environment is coming very much into the fore.
China buys a lot of gold, and will pay a premium for the substance. China has ambitions to dominate economically and industrially (it already does this last one). The spend of the manufacturers is more than recovered in consequential sales, at the moment. Who knows how the east west situation may play out, if trade barriers become a sticking point.

I think the future is uncertain on many fronts, as such, longer term, political agendas will significantly influence the future of F1, indirectly and directly.

 

I would have thought the hybrid eco fuel and electric motors would be right up Toyota and Honda's Street

 

Toyota have already.moved past hybrid. They state they have build the drive train as electric with choice of power to be dropped in. Battery, hydrogen or hybrid engine its all going to go to electric motors.

The fundamental f1 design uses a big old gear box through drive trains. That's out with electric really. For f1 to be in any way relevant it would have to adopt electric drive train with some.means of power for batteries that can last 200mils flat out.

 

I like Toyota's methodology - great way to hedge your bets.

I think F1 dropped the ball by not stopping Formula E starting up with such a long contract. Formula E has an exclusivity on a fully EV and hydrogen single-seater championship until 2039!!!
So unless FIA or F1 buy out Formula E, F1 don't have much choice but to use internal combustion engines with the addition of electrical energy!

I could almost see F1 going to 'sustainable fuels' and big old V8's and almost becoming a 'this is what we used to race before electricity' type thing.

 

I was just reading that for next year,George has already hinted that the W14 will look more like a conventional car ,in other words,proper side pods.I`m sure that the underlying problem is lack of side pods. I mean to say, I`m no expert in areo or anything like that,but it`s just a gut feeling that I`ve had since the very first few races when qualy or progress through the pack during the race wasn`t getting any better,and it`s really only the Ferrari incompetence got them onto the podium.

 

I still don't know.

You are right that it really is picking up the breadcrumbs stuff but they are far better in race trim.

The positives for Mercedes:
1. low tyre deg,
2. relative reliability,
3. some competitive speed trap requests. Not red bull levels but nobody is.

The negatives for Mercedes:
1. the car has to be run as stiff as possible and as low as possible to get any sort of ground effect. this is killing them massively anywhere theres a few bumps.
2. We have seen the car numerous times struggle to pass other cars no matter where it is or what slip stream it gets. it cannot get by a ferrari very well and can't get near a red bull but even at some places the others like aliine is a challenge. Why is this? Top end grunt? drag?
3. they say the car is massively overweight themselves.

I don't think this is "side pods" par se but the entire chassis and floor is not right leading to this running far lower than redbull do and zero forgiveness in the suspension to keep that floor just about working. I think this part is fairly ok to say as it seems a common theme.



We have to keep coming back to the engine. where are the mercs engines on the grid?

Mercedes, Aston Martin F1, McLaren, and Williams We are seeing similar things at each team. albon pulled an amazing result out of quali but there penalties involved as well so his 10thin the race is actually spectacular for Williams. People seem to be putting this down to the williams low downforce package.

Mclaren, absolutely nowhere. (the whole car seems to have gone backwards this year but ricciardo was 7th on gird and just went backwards.

Aston had vettel promoted several places on the grid, he was nowhere in quali. its not the best car but its got that engine. the common theme with aston is they seem to at least see improvement through the race with vettel. he was there with the alpines at the end. none of this bouncing about either.

By contrast The ferrari engined cars seem to all perform roughly the same at strong tracks for ferrari. aka haas come from nowhere to top 10 if the track is good for them. this seems all about engine low end traction.

The red bull engine by contrast is stuck in the alpha tauri which seems to not have near the same performance as its mothership. But the red bull is very consistently no 1 in the speed traps on the high end grunt tracks.

This to be taken on proviso its the race where different conditions exist for each driver in terms of drag and slipstreams and fuel loads and whatever.



In the speed traps verstappen isn't quick. you can actually see norris right up there in the speed tap and finihs of lp but far slower in the first two sections.

By contrast russell is so flow in sector 1 but sector two is flying, the speed trap hes again nowhere and then hes faster over the finihs line.

 

There seems to be some suggestions that Red Bull actually brought their new chassis to Spa!! It's said to be 5kg lighter and stiffer! So 5Kg lighter is something like 0.2sec per lap I think! Maybe Ferrari did lose some performance after the flexi floor Tech Directive but it's almost like Red Bull had lots of notice of the TD coming and incorporated a stiffer floor in their new chassis design!
So it could be that Adrian has pulled a blinder again!!! Their floor does seem to be a key feature that no one else has a clue about. I do wonder if Adrian is the only aero person still designing stuff that was around when ground effect was last allowed and that is giving him a huge advantage?

 

First it would have to be declared in the race paper work so was it?

Second red bull very early in season said they were too heavy so while others were spending on body parts and aero maybe red bull simply worked the underfloor for a very long time?

I don't see it that red bull somehow got an in and resolved their plank flexing etc. Everyone imo knew the rules and what was changing at the same time. Merc have said they can't afford to lighten the chassis with the spend on the other parts of their sows ear.

 

Also just to make a comment.

Comparing Hungary to spa is like comparing apples to oranges.

Stating the red bull was 4kg lighter and then saying that's chassis. Well... what was reported to the fiat as car upgrades?

 

Now we know Alpine are short of a driver and the rumours are that they might 'buy' Gastly! I wonder if Red Bull would have Danny Ric back or if they would be prepared to offer him a decent salary?

 

I think they only do it if he proves himself at Alpha Tauri for a year to show he’s still got the fight for it.

Perez has a deal til end of 2024 - I suspect the only time they consider moving him is for the final year of his contract at the earliest.

I think they would have to ask Dan to do a year in the sister team and drive well, and assess how Perez is doing.

Has a driver ever left the Red Bull stable only to return later? I can’t think of one.

 

Yes I agree. I more meant Danny Ric to Alpha Tauri i.e. back in the Red Bull stable. I keep reading stuff about a possible sale of Alpha T so that might have an impact. Although more rumours about Porsche wanting a 50 share of Red Bull but Horner, Newey and someone else not keen as they want to maintain control.
Also rumours of Honda coming back with McLaren which might be fun!!

 

Albon, back to Alpha Tauri would make more sense for RB if they want to take an ex driver back and I could see Ric at Williams on a 1+1 deal.

 

Doubt Red Bull as a company would want anyone that plums deep in their outfit. It would make any future change/split both difficult and ugly. And we've seen how ruthless they can be

 

If Williams are the only choice for Danny he would probably be happier in another series. Danny's career has gone seriously south with the move to Mclaren, very sad for someone who showed promise. He has a few bob in the bank though so guess we shouldn't worry about him too much.