1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Spare Parts (F1 odds and ends)

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Masanari, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    There's more money in F1 than there ever has been, it's time to shake up the payments. It needs to go the English football route, 50% of the money is divided equally as appearance money, new teams have to wait 2 years before they qualify for any of it. The rest is paid per point.
     
    #3701
    SgtBhaji likes this.
  2. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    Not sure how best to handle new teams in that scenario, but fair distribution of the cash is a must.
     
    #3702
  3. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    they start earning for the money when within 107% and payments start after they earn their first point? no Life's or Andrea Moda's
     
    #3703
  4. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856

    I imagine we all did :)
     
    #3704
    Big Ern likes this.
  5. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    Very good point , very good point indeed !
     
    #3705
  6. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    That's a bit chicken and egg though. Might be tough to get that first point without the payments. Maybe 50% payments until earning the first point? I dunno.
     
    #3706
  7. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Likes Received:
    2,332
    Ferrari are silly aren't they? This idea that without them F1 is nothing. If they ever walked away they would throw away the status attached to being the only team to have been in F1 since the start of the world championship, all that cachet, and just become just another sports car manufacturer. They're not going to do that because that would be suicidal, so why don't they shut their holes.
     
    #3707
    DHCanary likes this.
  8. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    F1 would be missing something if Ferrari ever decided to walk, but it certainly wouldn't die. Instead of threats they need to be helping guide the new regs in a way that will benefit the sport as a whole.
     
    #3708
  9. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    I should castigate Ferrari but I won't because if I could bullshit and threaten F1 into giving me £100m I would.
     
    #3709
  10. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    When you look at it like that...
     
    #3710

  11. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    it's gamesmanship, Ferrari play it well, their hand is weaker now than it was, but it's still fairly strong imo. If we're honest, there's probably 3 or 4 teams with fans, of those teams Ferrari probably has at least half of them. that used to be a big pull for F1, there would always be a load of Ferrari fans at every GP, it was guaranteed money. but in the last 10-15 years has seen F1 grow globally, so the revenue Ferrari create isn't needed so much, but they're probably worth more than £100m to F1, that's the decision.

    not advocating it in anyway, but seeing the bigger picture (which inevitably means a few cents on Liberty's share price)
     
    #3711
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    SgtBhaji likes this.
  12. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    I’d argue it stronger than ever.

    The investment by a manufacturer is that obscene that any board would gladly walk away from the financial commitment, especially if there not winning.

    If F1 moves away from road tec or sports car tec engineering, it’s less beneficial to their brand.

    They would be better suited to sports car racing and GTs

    They have been the only one capable of mounting a challenge to the dominate Merc
     
    #3712
    SgtBhaji and Big Ern like this.
  13. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    aye, none of the engine manufacturers are happy at what has bee suggested re new engine regs in '21, just as they start getting a proper handle on the technology.
     
    #3713
  14. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    Has Honda actually said anything? I would have thought this would benefit them as it addresses the parts they were struggling with.
     
    #3714
  15. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    I would prefer Ferrari to stay in the sense of, 'the more, the merrier'. F1 is better off if it has more competitors, so losing one called Ferrari would be a shame in statistical terms.

    However, I only want them to be around if they play by the same rules as every other competitor and are no longer afforded ANY advantage over any other competitor. Ferrari should think itself lucky it ever procured such an outrageous deal in the first place and sit back on the extra billions it didn't earn so much as extort. Like so many, I am sick and tired of the FIA allowing itself to be bought in this manner and for it to continue to be cowed by the hollow threats it should be laughing at.
    In the world of motor racing, Ferrari make a mockery of the concept of 'sport'. They are only interested in maintaining a farcical situation (to help them win) which should never have been allowed in the first place. It's coercion; and in all seriousness, little short of an old fashioned Italian-style protection racket.

    If a team cannot play on the same terms as those it wants to be seen to be beating, F1 – if it considers itself to be a sport like any other, and still to be the spearhead of motor-racing worldwide – should seize this most perfect opportunity to level the playing field, once and for all. Tell Ferrari, "like it or lump it". –And mean it!

    Let's move in the direction of simplified economics. Tell all competitors: "These are the rules. From now on they will be identical for all competitors". Any dissenters can choose to go elsewhere if they wish; it is, after all, their prerogative…
     
    #3715
    Number 1 Jasper and SgtBhaji like this.
  16. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Honda is steeped in the unwritten Japanese code of honour. It does not consider its place to be in defining competition rules, preferring instead to overcome all odds. It's why Honda are still here fighting. Honda were seriously disadvantaged upon re-entering F1 with its punitive treatment of newcomers at the introduction of the new power units, yet they just got on with the job. No complaint.

    In a sense, Honda is the polar opposite to Ferrari.
     
    #3716
  17. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    9,613
    Likes Received:
    3,185
    The best thing Formula 1 can do right now is bid farewell to the Italian Gangsters that prevent progress of what we must remember first and foremost is SPORT.

    Unfortunately, Ferrari do not want fair competition because it increases their chances of losing (although given their handicap advantage they've been a spectacular failure for the most part of the last 40 years of F1. The only time they nailed it was when they had a genius running the team and protecting them from their own ego and politics (and a mighty fine driver too).

    The greatest progress Liberty will ever make for F1 is to let Ferrari carry out their threat. Whether they like it or not, F1 is bigger than Ferrari and whoever took their place would gain an enormous amount of brand growth.

    Formula 1 NEEDS TO BE A SPORT. Close racing, proper fighting, loud and proud spectacle that does not pander to the road car industry. Formula E does that my friends.

    Split the money fairly, end of story.

    (Clearly prize money should be hierarchical)
     
    #3717
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    cosicave likes this.
  18. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    9,613
    Likes Received:
    3,185
    The best thing Formula 1 can do right now is bid farewell to the Italian Gangsters that prevent progress of what we must remember first and foremost is SPORT.

    Unfortunately, Ferrari do not want fair competition because it increases their chances of losing (although given their handicap advantage they've been a spectacular failure for the most part of the last 40 years of F1. The only time they nailed it was when they had a genius running the team and protecting them from the town ego and politics (and a mighty fine driver too).

    The greatest progress Liberty will ever make for F1 is to let Ferrari carry out their threat. Whether they like it or not, F1 is bigger than Ferrari and whoever took their place would gain an enormous amount of brand growth.

    Formula 1 NEEDS TO BE A SPORT. Close racing, proper fighting, loud and proud spectacle that does not pander to the road car industry. Formula E does that my friends.

    Split the money fairly, end of story.

    (Clearly prize money should be hierarchical but that is the only thing)
     
    #3718
  19. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    Oh I totally agree
     
    #3719
  20. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    13,495
    Likes Received:
    2,568
    There's probably a graphical representation of this somewhere. Which is probably easier.

    -------

    The bulk of the prize money is equivalent to 47.5% of F1’s profit. This amount is divided into two with one half split between the top ten based on results. The other half is split evenly and only goes to teams which have finished in the top ten in two out of the past three years.

    A further 7.5% of F1’s profit is handed to Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull Racing as they won the most races in the four seasons prior to 2012, which is when this bonus was first introduced. It comes to at least £81.3m ($100m) annually and is guaranteed regardless of the teams’ results.

    In addition, Ferrari gets a dedicated prize money pot comprising 5% of F1’s profit which comes to at least £50.6m ($62.2m) annually. It is a benefit of the Italian squad being F1’s longest-standing team having been racing in the championship since it was launched in 1950.

    All-in-all Ferrari gets around £83.4m in prize money before a single race begins. Furthermore, even though it finished behind Mercedes, its prize money haul last year outstripped that of the German team by a staggering £42.8m. McLaren and Red Bull Racing made £74.8m and £98.4m respectively thanks to their bonuses. These four outfits combined earned an estimated 55.7% of last year’s prize money. Their payments come to £446.2m but if the total was balanced evenly across all teams it would reduce to £291.2m which is a combined fall of £155m for all four.
     
    #3720

Share This Page