I think Dortmund were quite interested after he did this to them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERfaD-CISVE&feature=related Of course, top of the Bundesliga probably doesn't qualify as a top side. Probably why we wouldn't touch that Goetze guy with a bargepole, playing for a scrub side like that. Letting a slow, average, useless player do that to them!
The way we play, an out and out defender is not going to work. We need someone who can be the beast DM going back, but also need someone with the ability to pass coming forward so that we can make the most of our "extra" man in midfield. I think (and I am really straining to try and do it) I think I can see how, looking at Song as just a purely defensive DM, you could say he was mediocre, but when you look at our system (yes, I know you don't like the system either) what Wenger needs (yes I know you dont rate the manager either) is someone who can play a pass and run with the ball too. We can't get a DM like Denilson (or Scott Parker), who wins the ball, but then passes the ball sideways. Even our CBs need to be able to play a bit, which is why, in the past we have had trouble finding those. You may think that there are thousands of DMs, we can afford, with the size and ability to play in both directions better than Song, but I think looking at the assists he has this season alone, you are going to be hard pushed making that case.
Song is a decent player, and is looking more like a CM than a DM right now. He is a bit of an enigma I always say because his touch can be poor but sometimes good, and once he gets the ball under control can do some good things with it. He's never going to be a DM like parker but as we saw in the NDL has far more to his game. His defensive game only shows at CB in midfield he is not fast or sharp enough to be effective in stopping attacks. But if your're talking about teams with CL ambitions like the Milans and Juve's of this world I cannot imagine them being interested in Song, no way Jose!
I'm not convinced that Song is the one out of position (sometimes) in our defence. We are not playing the zonal 2 banks of 4, we are playing some kind of man-marking pressing scheme, which is a lot more complicated, particularly when we are playing against another 4-3-3 variant. I see Kos marking the lone striker, but I see Vermaelen as the extra man. Song is usually tracking their creative midfielder the "number 10 role" (I think), which means he may go all over. I think if you watch closely, he isn't the spare man, or marking the space in the middle - that is Vermaelen.
What I am trying to tell you is that if the opposition number 10 is also up the field with him, he isn't out of position.
Come on, you can do better than that. You always seem to imply that you know about football. Can you tell me what hs defensive assignment is? Can you even tell me what the normal assignment for a DM is in a 4-2-3-1? Do you know anything?
Parker had an average game ..... Song has them far more than Parker - and Song didn't run rings around anybody that game. Parker is much better than Song, its not even close. Better passing, dribbling, shooting, turning, defensive screening, Parker is miles ahead. Football Writer's Association player of the year last year, England footballer of the year last year.
Go on find one (just joking!) So, we aren't allowed to use stats to prove he is a good player. We cant use anecdotal video evidence. We can't try to reason with you (pl), to explain why he might sometimes appear out of position. I guess you win. Can we make up the rules next time?
Its not something neither I or you can "prove", it is subjective I don't rate him at all and the qualities you see I don't. You don't rate Parker, well, we disagree, how can either of us prove anything ? I'd like to think I am right because lots of people voted for Parker as FWA player of the year because he was outstanding last season. We won't change each other's mind though ..... Arsenal4life - do me a lemon geez ! I doubt we'd find a single Spurs fan who would swap Parker for Song, but I can find a few Arsenal fans who would !
We shouldnt use spurs fans to back up our arguements. Thats clutching at straws mate! I think song is average. He is not really amazing at anything. he is just a decent centre mid. I think we need a world class holding player. Or just a decent holding player would be a start. Parker is so average I cant believe it. he doesnt do anything well. He really is a poor player. He is david batty (mr pass sideways) but without the tackling.
It's subjective, but I wish I knew how you thought Parker was better than Song. You said "better at passing, dribbling, shooting, turning, defensive screening". But the stats show he isn't better at passing, either completion-wise, and I doubt you can find video of any key passes he has played this season better than Song's. (qute frankly, there is a case for Song's passing being better than Modric's) Song's dribbling (video) is vastly superior. Shooting - probably a wash - maybe Parker is better. Turning - not sure. And I've tried to point out that in our system Song isn't required to be a defensive screen (I don't think). So whilst I agree it is subjective , I'd love to know why you developed this view of Song, and even more how you came to rate Parker so highly?
The stats I care about are winning games and goals conceded and scored. We have conceded alot of goals the last 2 years. I put alot of that down to have no holding midfielder. Espicially this year, as I feel like we have a good back line now. But they are hopelessly exposed week in week out.
Make's sense. But if you are going to take this approach I think you need to be a bit careful singling out players. Defensive systems are more complex, and we don't have a very good idea of what the players are being asked to do, or risks they are being asked to take, perhaps when we are chasing a game. I will admit that our defence gets disorganized somethimes, and I'll admit I cant say it definitely isn't Song's fault, but it has been a LOT better since we got Sagna and Gibbs back (more Sagna I think). I read that as Vermaelen (before that Metersacker) (the spare man) being pulled out of the middle to cover for our makeshift full backs less, and so there is less space there (in the middle) for the onrushing opposition midfield. It may look like that space is Song's fault, because hey, that spot in the middle is the DM's job right? but maybe that isn't the case. Incidently, this was often seemed to be the case with Clichy. Ball played in behind him, Vermaelen has to go over and cover, bloody great wads of space in the middle! I'm really just saying that in order to fix blame, I would need to know exactly what the system is.
the back line has no relationship. Arsenal have had something like 26 different back 4 combinations this season, it's ridiculous. song rotates with arteta at the moment - one stays, one goes. so he's not always in the classic DM position, because he isn't a classic DM. surely people can see that!? he's a good player. he's improved in an attacking sense this season, his passing has got much better. he's become more versatile and more useful. i definitely want him to stay. he's still young for a footballer and will be a beast in the years to come. he's deceptively quick, but he's not "cool" to like. you also don't notice him a lot of time in the games, he quietly goes about his business. he's not flashy at all, he's a calm, quiet, family man and he should sign a new contract.
Song gives the ball away far too much, basic passes he doesn't get right, I've not seen Parker do it anywhere near the same amount. Admittedly I haven't seen Parker do more than a 20 yard pass - Song has. For West Ham Parker was box to box, he used to dribble - he scored some blockbuster goals, he battled. He plays one dimensionally for Spurs but I've seen him do it all for West Ham. He turns sharply and has great balance on the ball, Song turns like a boat - not one of those power boats either ! The thing for me is, I rate players based on what I see others do and also what I can do. I don't see Song do a single thing that I don't see regularly from semi pro footballers, nothing at all, this is what I don't rate him. Players like Parker stand out because he will get box to box and he is difficult to get the ball off because he twists and turns so sharply and has a good first touch. As a fellow centre mid I know who I'd rather hate to play against and it wouldn't be Song.
Song gives the ball away far too much, basic passes he doesn't get right, I've not seen Parker do it anywhere near the same amount. Admittedly I haven't seen Parker do more than a 20 yard pass - Song has. For West Ham Parker was box to box, he used to dribble - he scored some blockbuster goals, he battled. He plays one dimensionally for Spurs but I've seen him do it all for West Ham. He turns sharply and has great balance on the ball, Song turns like a boat - not one of those power boats either ! The thing for me is, I rate players based on what I see others do and also what I can do. I don't see Song do a single thing that I don't see regularly from semi pro footballers, nothing at all, this is what I don't rate him. Players like Parker stand out because he will get box to box and he is difficult to get the ball off because he twists and turns so sharply and has a good first touch. As a fellow centre mid I know who I'd rather hate to play against and it wouldn't be Song.
