1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

So what

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by nabzy2005, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    2,069
  2. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14,503
    Likes Received:
    1,686
    Let's face facts Danilo (and yes we do agree on most things and I respect your opinion) BR has obviously been working to a strict budget, he wanted Siggurdson, he wanted Dempsey, he wanted to sign one or two players yesterday and he got no one. Any manager who is given money to spend spends it. let's not kid ourselves that BR would have left himself short if FSG had made the funds available just because he "rated Dempsey at £5 mill and no more". To make matters worse the players he wanted and needed have ended up at one of our rivals.

    Maxi, Kuyt, Aqua, Adam, Spearing and Carroll out. Now you might rate none of them or consider them worthy of a place but once we get a few injuries and suspensions you may well find we are crying out for some back up players like these. Maxi 20 appearances last year, Dirk 45, Spearing 25, Adam 35, Carroll 47 appearances. That's a whole lot of cover we've just sold or loaned out. You can call that shifting "deadwood" all you like but that's a total of 172 games we have to find players for potentially. That to me isn't just shifting "deadwood" it's slashing the squad and wage bill to within an inch of its life.

    It's not a question of being fickle. I've made my feelings about FSG abundantly clear since they appointed Comolli and let him run wild with the Torres money....and I've felt justified in that criticism since they failed to spend last Jan, failed to provide our manager with adequate support during the Suarez affair and then sacked Kenny and Steve Clarke in a fit of impatience (whilst urging us "customers" to be patient with them). h

    They know nothing about football but they also seem completely inept at identifying the "football experts" they desperately need due to their own lack of knowledge. They are experts at saying a lot and delivering very little. Their time in charge has been a lurch from one disaster to another and as I've said before at what point does the buck stop with them? THEY are responsible for the running of the club from top to bottom, they are ultimately responsible if we overpay for players, they are ultimately responsible for our league position and they are ultimately responsible for yesterdays complete and utter **** up in the transfer market. Whether you blame Comolli, Kenny, Ayre or Rodgers for failed players or failed signings...they employed them all.

    You're statement that "Someone gives us 5m for Adam, it's not 5m in the bank to be used the next day. It's 500k per month for 10 months. So if we want Dempsey for 6m we still need to cough up 6m out of pocket." makes no sense. If we only get the Adam money over 10 months then surely we only spend the Dempsey money over the same period.

    Also as you say "It's still money spent out of investitors funds, money out of the company's bankrolls." and this is true. However, do you really expect us to be able to achieve top four without investing first? If they are investors then shouldn't they invest to get us there and then reap the rewards later....and before anyone comes out with the tired old "yes but they invested heavily once and are reluctant to do it again" bullshit let's get it straight. They spent the Torres money and cash from the sales of Babel and Meireles and the money they saved by buying the club cheaper than it was worth. They have "invested" absolutely nothing of their own in real terms. Plus you can't really count Sahin as an investment when we've only got him for a year.

    I do agree that two years ago we probably would have sold Suarez and Agger but you may well find we're going to lose those players soon enough anyway. As I've said countless times now yesterdays farce doesnt mean we are doomed. What it means is that BRs job is a whole lot tougher than it needed to be. What it means is that we may see 6 months of struggle and then spend January trying to replace the players who move onto clubs where they might actually achieve success.

    The argument that "you should be grateful these guys aren't H&G" will only wash for so long. That's like saying we should be grateful that Charlie Adam isn't Carlton Palmer. Well yes we are grateful at first but in real terms its really very little difference in the long run if both are basically ****ing useless to us.
     
    #22
  3. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14,503
    Likes Received:
    1,686
    Aren't FSG ultimately responsible?
     
    #23
  4. Gucci.Mane

    Gucci.Mane Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    72
    Curveball.....? cannot stand American sayings creeping into our language!!!!!
     
    #24
  5. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    123,163
    Likes Received:
    29,790
    look.... everyone is forgetting one tiny thing... leaving aside fsg stuff the laon window is not closed so we can "beg" chelsea for sturridge and such.... <applause>
     
    #25
  6. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14,503
    Likes Received:
    1,686
    It was a baseball reference due to their baseball connection put in there deliberately <ok>
     
    #26
  7. chappster

    chappster Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    4
    As long as suarez keeps his weekly appointments at Specsavers we may be ok!!!
     
    #27
  8. Four2Three1©

    Four2Three1© Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    3
    Apparently Brendan Rodgers only as late as last night found out that his £20 million pound budget included wages....
     
    #28
  9. Sir Kenny Dalglish

    Sir Kenny Dalglish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    39
    I would be happy to see Liverpool spend £20-£30 million a year, as long as money isn't been pulled out to pay off loans. There is two things I believe though, FSG don't do transfer budgets, and secondly they don't do leveraged buy-outs. Brendan has said that he will deal with what he's got until January and then deal with it. Who knows the board may free up cash for a new striker.
     
    #29
  10. Sir_Red

    Sir_Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,326
    Likes Received:
    687
    I think it is closed now for loans TO pl clubs.
     
    #30

  11. Zingy

    Zingy #ziggywould

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    19,854
    Likes Received:
    3,299
    This. <ok>
     
    #31
  12. Poolliver LallanaDelRey

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    13
    Lets look at the bigger picture.. Though we have lost our backup striker without replacing him, look at the amount of game time Carroll had under Brendan Rodgers.

    It is obvious that he was seen as a backup option and he was never going to get a start without injuries to the team (I mean even Sterling and Morgan started ahead of him).

    So loosing Carroll will not effect our team this season in anyway! I am a bit disappointed that we did not sign somebody.. But with the signings of Allen and Sahin in particular, I think our squad has actually improved (minus the area in which Rodgers does not use anyways).

    I think there should be more pressure on the owners to spend though (we need to pressure them for every penny); mind you look what tripe we bought in last time we pressured the owners (there must be a better way to go about it).
     
    #32
  13. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    26,647
    Likes Received:
    8,514
    @empireofthekop: RT @BenSmithBBC: Was told yesterday, Brendan Rodgers only realised his £20m summer transfer budget included wages, very late on.

    Ok the BBC is not what it once was for reliability.but if true this is what I mean about questions to answer: I've calmed down a little from 4am but I still have the following concerns:

    1) how the hell is there a Mis-communication about how much money the manager has to spend? Who's job is it to make this clear to the manager. Surely it became apparent they were on different wavelengths when he's walking around talking about 2-3 players more (8 days ago!!) Who should have stepped in?

    2)it still begs the question as to what was the point of the review by their panel of "experts". Rodgers is their selected football expert and they ignored his advice: buy this player. Some on here are putting it across like it was a tactical stroke of genius because they personally didn't like the player! Next time it will be a player you do like. Not the point. They basically said: "we aren't going to believe the guy we got in as the football expert" where does that leave everyone?

    3) who was in charge of communication? The entire 2 months has seemed slap dash communications wise in what is presented to the public, it's been contradictory in nature and confused the customer sorry fans..

    4) is there going to be a reevaluation of targeted achievements due to the manager not getting the players he wanted?

    A minor question to end: who on earth agreed a sale deal of a young wunderkid who if he performs brilliantly can be bought back for no profit by the sellers?? I could see the point if this was a fully developed player but he's going to our reserves. So basically we're paying to keep him warm for another club. We're paying to develop him. Is this another FSG pilot scheme; hire out our development team & Academy to other clubs to use: £1.3 million a player?

    I'm getting sick of people accusing those that ask questions as being "fickle" I'm not saying FSG out, I'm not expecting them to spend 100's millions of their own money on transfers. I'm not expecting them to throw up a stadium in today's economy.

    But last night they at best have not been clear with the guying they rely on to make this team work and hence badly effected his plans or at worst they don't believe or trust in their own expert.

    They need to answer the question as to why they publicly undermined their manager for the sake of a million pounds when he had already cleared so much off the books.

    If they give straight answers fine. If they don't then I'm sorry but it will reflect how I view them from now on; this wasn't "teething trouble" this was inflexible policy implementation regardless with how bad it made us look. I want to know why because I can't think of an answer that isn't scary.
     
    #33
  14. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14,503
    Likes Received:
    1,686
    No now we have to worry about having no debt (apart from the £20 mill we actually owe FSG for them paying off the stadium debt) and no squad depth and the likelihood we'll see more departures than arrivals in future. How about we get some owners who can a) Not put debt on the club b) will actually invest some of their own to get the rewards later on...not owners who want to store up all the cash from new kit deal, new sponsorships, increased tv revenues and reduced wages and potentially bugger off with a nice big fat profit from a sale and leave us with half a squad.

    They can only live off the reputation of "at least we're not H&G" for so long.
     
    #34
  15. Sir_Red

    Sir_Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,326
    Likes Received:
    687
    Guardian saying our final Dempsey bid was £3m, (even though Villa offered £5m) <doh><doh><doh>
     
    #35
  16. Zingy

    Zingy #ziggywould

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    19,854
    Likes Received:
    3,299
    That last one is extremely frustrating. No communication at all. <ok>
     
    #36
  17. Gucci.Mane

    Gucci.Mane Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    72
    Oh it was too subtle for me...lol
     
    #37
  18. jaffaSlot

    jaffaSlot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    16,229
    Likes Received:
    7,284
    Have made you mean.
     
    #38
  19. jaffaSlot

    jaffaSlot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    16,229
    Likes Received:
    7,284
    By my calculations, they have made quite a bit thus far.
     
    #39
  20. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14,503
    Likes Received:
    1,686
    People have been saying my grievances are premature for months and I honestly did not to be proved right. Unfortunately yesterday just confirmed my mistrust.
     
    #40

Share This Page