Off Topic So, what now?

[AshtonRed]

There was never any chance of that anyway mate...Brexit or no Brexit, was never fit to be PM

Agree with him or not , the one thing he had going for him was being a politician of principles , not anymore.
I get it he’s trying to keep remainer MPs in the Labour Party , but it makes him look weak, and most importantly forever tarnish the one good quality he had .
As a Labour supporter for many years at the moment I fear for the Labour Party .
That said the Tories aren’t any better, this generation of politicians are useless and there’s not a decent leader amongst them.

 

[RedorDead]

I was talking to my dad earlier and he asked who would I vote for now if an election was called. I’ve always been labour, but I said I would choose not to vote. He said son don’t lose your vote, which I replied to vote for labour or tories would only be a waste of vote as IMO neither deserve it.
He thought about it and rather than tell me what he’s always said about not voting he said I’m sorry you feel that way but I actually respect your decision.
In my opinion I think once the vote to leave it should of been a cross party policy to select a member from each party to negotiate the leave as it wasn’t a one party decision but a country decision. All they’ve done is argue with each other over let’s look better than the opposition childish way rather than respect the decision. In my opinion, a very childish way, not as grown ups leading a country.
The one thing I can see happening is TIG gathering momentum and will be leaded by either Tony Blair or David Milliband and could potentionally beat the two big parties.
Everyone needs to accept the vote if they like it or not and just get on with it for the future of this country.

 

[BCFCRob]

Well, i think, for what it’s worth, there will be (or rather there SHOULD be) a second (or rather a FOURTH) referendum.
This time, the REAL choices should be on the table - and there are 3 (there always were 3 but 2 were not made clear before):
1. No deal ‘hard’ Brexit - on WTO rules
2. May’s Brexit deal - whatever that turns out to be
3. Remain

To avoid a ‘back door’ Remain, you could adopt either of the following methods:

- If the SUM of the 2 ‘Brexit’ votes polled was greater than the Remain vote then Brexit would win and the TYPE of Brexit would be the winner between the 2 types of Brexit; Hard or Soft.

Or...

- A choice carrying a score; you rank your choices in the order of first, second and 3rd and they then score 3, 2 or 1 points respectively and the option with the most points wins. For example; a Brexiteer may want a Hard Brexit, but might feel that Remain was better (or ‘less bad’) than May’s deal, so would vote thus:
1: Hard Brexit
2: Remain
3: May’s deal

At the end, all the points would be totalled up and the preferred solution revealed.

That’s my opinion for what it’s worth.....
Some may argue that to even include Remain in the poll would be ‘un democratic’ - but to dismiss the opinions of 48% of the electorate who voted last time around us as dangerous as trying to sink Brexit by stealth. I’m a Remainer (just) but I wouldn’t want to achieve Remain on a technicality.

I do quite like this post and would agree on the beginning with your 3 options. The two issues with that are:
- No deal WTO rules Brexit should only be on the table if it clearly defines what happens with Ireland too.
- I think it's only fair to have a separate vote on No Deal v Deal Brexit. It's a bit harsh on Brexiteers to have their vote split across the two, even if I do agree with it.

I don't bloody know to be honest. The main issue with this referendum is the ambiguity the first time around. If we have another referendum, every option has to be clearly and 100% defined. That way, there is no excuse. If no deal wins, where we are clearly on WTO rules and we plan to rebuild the Ireland border over the next 5 years (for example), I'd completely disagree with it, but I'd have to respect it. And I'd almost certainly leave the country too.

 

[BCFCRob]

I was talking to my dad earlier and he asked who would I vote for now if an election was called. I’ve always been labour, but I said I would choose not to vote. He said son don’t lose your vote, which I replied to vote for labour or tories would only be a waste of vote as IMO neither deserve it.
He thought about it and rather than tell me what he’s always said about not voting he said I’m sorry you feel that way but I actually respect your decision.
In my opinion I think once the vote to leave it should of been a cross party policy to select a member from each party to negotiate the leave as it wasn’t a one party decision but a country decision. All they’ve done is argue with each other over let’s look better than the opposition childish way rather than respect the decision. In my opinion, a very childish way, not as grown ups leading a country.
The one thing I can see happening is TIG gathering momentum and will be leaded by either Tony Blair or David Milliband and could potentionally beat the two big parties.
Everyone needs to accept the vote if they like it or not and just get on with it for the future of this country.

Yeah I feel you here to an extent. I'd still vote Labour, just to get rid of the Tories. They must be the most pitiful, shambolic Government we've had in living memory. The past 9 years have been abysmal. But I definitely agree with your stance, I'm almost past caring.

 

[Red Robin]

Yeah I feel you here to an extent. I'd still vote Labour, just to get rid of the Tories. They must be the most pitiful, shambolic Government we've had in living memory. The past 9 years have been abysmal. But I definitely agree with your stance, I'm almost past caring.

How the hell could you vote that shambolic mob in

 

[BCFCRob]

How the hell could you vote that shambolic mob in

Because unlike you RR mate, I don't believe everything the papers say and I am able to think for myself . Labour are abysmal at the moment but not as abysmal as the Tories, in my opinion of course. But this is a Brexit thread so let's not derail the discussion. I'm fully aware Labour are full on sh*te right now.

 

[wizered]

All I want is for March 29th to arrive, we've booted the bullying Brussels buffoons out of our lives, we are free of all of the false restraints and we all get down to looking after UK ltd together.

 

[Red Robin]

All I want is for March 29th to arrive, we've booted the bullying Brussels buffoons out of our lives, we are free of all of the false restraints and we all get down to looking after UK ltd together.

100% with you Wiz, i can't wait too be rid of this corrupt mob in Brussels, let's get the hell out of it.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I think it will be delayed personally.
Despite being a Remainer it’s not what I want, because I think the ‘limbo’ situation we are currently in is more damaging for us than a Hard no-deal Brexit.
The can will be kicked further down the road I fear.....

 

[johngalleyfan2]

Democracy is gone forever if the Will off the people in not respected

that is what democracy is all about
for or against sitting on the fence or not saying /doing anything means you take what you get by abstaining you accept 100% what the result is. 30 odd million out there had their chance they couldn't be bothered what happens ....... shame when you voted you didn't get a vote again slip! so that those did vote could revote at some time in the future on issues … BUT NOT on trying to reverse ….. W E ARE L E A V I N G ……………………

 

[BCFCRob]

A majority did not vote for no deal so please stop lying.

This is a really good watch by the way. I absolutely can't stand James O'Brien but his guest here speaks brilliantly. Watch this and then try telling me we will be richer after Brexit:

You must log in or register to see media

 

[johngalleyfan2]

to go back now will be worse than going forward. the dictatorial EU will grind out their wishes for a dictatorial Europe with their laws their say on who does and gets what they say .. bit like the Russian federation that broke up a few years ago and now look how many of those imprisoned states are flourishing ... all of them!

 

[johngalleyfan2]

A majority did not vote for no deal so please stop lying.

when the vote was taken it was in or out so don't try and comfort yourself by stating something that was not being voted for .................

 

[BCFCRob]

to go back now will be worse than going forward. the dictatorial EU will grind out their wishes for a dictatorial Europe with their laws their say on who does and gets what they say .. bit like the Russian federation that broke up a few years ago and now look how many of those imprisoned states are flourishing ... all of them!

Repeating something doesn't make it true JGF. We chose not to be in the Euro. We can block Turkey joining. We chose not to be in Schengen. In what way is that dictatorial?

Directly to JGF and Red Robin. Can you name me one law which the EU forced upon us which you disagree with please?

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

Directly to JGF and Red Robin. Can you name me one law which the EU forced upon us which you disagree with please?

I know this wasn’t directed at me Rob, and I don’t know if it’s actually a law as such, but for me (and I’m a Remainer) the least palatable ‘rule’ for being in the EU - which took me to the brink of voting ‘Leave’ is the ‘Free movement of people’. Ironically it’s a rule that I was planning to exploit by retiring to Spain, but the idea that anyone (all those Syrians for example) could gain EU citizenship via Germany or Sweden using their ‘Open door’ Policies, then have the right to settle here in the UK - and we could do NOTHING about it - worries the hell out of me.

 

[BCFCRob]

I know this wasn’t directed at me Rob, and I don’t know if it’s actually a law as such, but for me (and I’m a Remainer) the least palatable ‘rule’ for being in the EU - which took me to the brink of voting ‘Leave’ is the ‘Free movement of people’. Ironically it’s a rule that I was planning to exploit by retiring to Spain, but the idea that anyone (all those Syrians for example) could gain EU citizenship via Germany or Sweden using their ‘Open door’ Policies, then have the right to settle here in the UK - and we could do NOTHING about it - worries the hell out of me.

See this is a good example. Because it's a completely valid concern, one which I share, and yet it's something which is completely untrue. And I'll admit, I didn't know this either, I had to look it up. Don't forget by the way that we will accept refugees ourselves whether we are in or out of the EU.

But anyways, refugees who are accepted by the likes of Germany, etc are given a long-term residency status, not EU citizenship. EU states are allowed to ignore freedom of movement rules for these citizens - and three have. The UK, Ireland, and Denmark.

Just as with Turkey apparently joining the EU and us being forced to join the Euro, it's more tabloid lies.

I'm also with you regarding freedom of movement by the way. It's such a great thing which would be gutting to miss out on. Thankfully, I can be remain a dual citizen via Ireland but most can't.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

See this is a good example. Because it's a completely valid concern, one which I share, and yet it's something which is completely untrue. And I'll admit, I didn't know this either, I had to look it up. Don't forget by the way that we will accept refugees ourselves whether we are in or out of the EU.

But anyways, refugees who are accepted by the likes of Germany, etc are given a long-term residency status, not EU citizenship. EU states are allowed to ignore freedom of movement rules for these citizens - and three have. The UK, Ireland, and Denmark.

Just as with Turkey apparently joining the EU and us being forced to join the Euro, it's more tabloid lies.

I'm also with you regarding freedom of movement by the way. It's such a great thing which would be gutting to miss out on. Thankfully, I can be remain a dual citizen via Ireland but most can't.

I didn’t know that. Thanks for explaining.
Just to be clear; I don’t have a problem with us taking in refugees - it’s the right and humane thing to do.
I have a problem with us being forced to accept someone else’s refugees (ie Sweden or Germany) where they were being given citizenship without proper checks being carried out under the ‘Open Door’ policies. There are certainly a dangerous minority (about 2% someone once estimated) of battle-hardened extremely unpleasant people among them who absolutely detest our liberal and tolerant values and will conspire to destroy us, using the ‘Human Rights’ as a rescue if they are caught.
However, if they are not able to travel or settle freely as you stated then it’s less of a problem for us in the UK and more for the Schengen countries.

 

[BCFCRob]

I didn’t know that. Thanks for explaining.
Just to be clear; I don’t have a problem with us taking in refugees - it’s the right and humane thing to do.
I have a problem with us being forced to accept someone else’s refugees (ie Sweden or Germany) where they were being given citizenship without proper checks being carried out under the ‘Open Door’ policies. There are certainly a dangerous minority (about 2% someone once estimated) of battle-hardened extremely unpleasant people among them who absolutely detest our liberal and tolerant values and will conspire to destroy us, using the ‘Human Rights’ as a rescue if they are caught.
However, if they are not able to travel or settle freely as you stated then it’s less of a problem for us in the UK and more for the Schengen countries.

Nah I totally agree. I've no idea how true the scare stories are, but if they are coming in and we have no way of registering them or tracking in some way, that doesn't sit comfortably with me whatsoever. I highly doubt it's actually the case though.

 

[johngalleyfan2]

Directly to JGF and Red Robin. Can you name me one law which the EU forced upon us which you disagree with please?

BENT BANANAS

 

[BCFCRob]

BENT BANANAS

Which is the biggest myth of them all JGF. Any others? Or just that one law?