So what did you expect?

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I appreciate you are [I assume] reporting what others think, so I will feel free to say that it's largely a load of ****.

My impression - and given the fact the club was saved with no other rescue in sight, I haven't bothered to check the figures - is that the deal cost Brent several million. That includes the absolutely universal business assumption that if you buy something that brings an obligation to pay past or non-operating costs or debts, then those either increase what you've paid for it or decrease the value of what you've bought - the effect is the same.

It doesn't matter whether those debts are repaid from the business' income as that reduces the cash available to you from current operations. That's the same as putting your hand into your pocket and paying it yourself - just the same as a reduction in your household income is the same as an increase in your household costs - either way, you're worse off.

Now this one nearly made me choke " The wages are being paid out of current earnings ". If you mean current wages rather than historic wages, where else would they be paid from? What business doesn't pay its own wages? But even if it's historic, see above, it reduces the value of what's been acquired.

It's a universal truth that even without past debts, football clubs don't make money unless they happen to be Man Utd or similar. They eat their weight in wages & transfer fees. Consequently, by any sensible method of valuation, they are worth nothing or are even net liabilities. Brent never said he was going to put large sums of cash in and fans should realise that unless the club is self-financing, it'll end up back in administration. If the don't trust Brent to hang around after the hotels are built, then that's an even bigger reason not to become reliant on him by racking up unsustainable costs.

It's not a question of being eternally grateful; the simple matter is that there was no alternative other than liquidation.
 
Rather early notDistant..........maybe you've only just got in from a night on the town........is that why you are so grumpy...and want to get to bed.

Sensible has no more facts than anyone else so is speculating on how he sees things........I would think he meant "currant wages" are being paid from "currant gate receipts" it's just the way he said it........so no need to choke on it notDistant.....we cannot all be so technically correct over these things.....seeing most of us are just oinks....or should I say because it is more fashionable at present plebs.
 
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GCHQ has nothing on this site. I have a frozen shoulder which doesn't bother me too much during the day but it gets stiff at night and keeps me awake. My shoulder I mean.

Sensible said "The main complaint it seems is that there is no apparent detail that he has in fact put his hand in his pocket for anything as such. The wages are being paid out of current earnings...."

Now if anyone thinks that a football club's current wages should be paid OTHER than from current earnings, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. If it's a criticism of Brent that it IS happening rather than him paying them personally, then we're back to the knuckle draggers again.

I admit it looks as if there's a different argument about unpaid wages from the past and I think that is probably what Sensible meant but ultimately it only comes back to the same place - if the club is having to pay old debts then it's less valuable than it would otherwise have been and Brent's purchase is a worse bargain. You will remember that Brent had to fund the club into a stable position to satisfy the Football League. If the calculation includes old wages to be paid by the club, then that figure was higher than it would otherwise have been and Brent has already paid, in part anyway.

The fact of the matter is that in an uncontested administration, all that's necessary is that the buyer comes to an agreement to pay the creditors, including the administrator's fees. If the underlying business has some commercial value that the purchaser wants, then the creditors are in a stronger negotiating position than if it hasn't. What nobody seems to pick up on [I suspect because they don't want to] is that football clubs, unless they have pretty immediate top third of the Premiership potential are entirely worthless by any sensible valuation method. Almost all of them make losses and many are in serious cash flow difficulties because they can't pay their way. How much would you pay for that sort of a business Plymborn?

The freehold of the ground was included in the purchase and it's true that that's been sold on to the council, which is probably a good thing for the security of the club. However, the various mortgages on it had to be settled too, so the proceeds were far from being free cash.

Lastly, I'll remind you of something I've said before which again nobody seems to take on board. We were saved this time ONLY BECAUSE there were property profits to be had. Next time, those property profits won't exist because they'll already been realised and all that will be left is a financially worthless football club - like all the others in this part of the league. Think about that and who there'd be to save us if we get into the same mess again.

We went all over this a year ago and how deliriously happy people were when Brent rode to the rescue. How short memories are.
 
All is not gloomy Notdistant if administration happens again, Home Park wont be turned into a qiant Tesco's so that is one positive thought !
 
I think it is fairly obvious that I wasn't talking about current wages but the old unpaid ones notdistant. You can shout how great Brent is all you like but the fact is that he hasn't put his hand in his pocket for anything much. I was indeed grateful there was somebody to take over Argyle and not let it die. However this is now a current business rather than a dying one and there comes a time when being grateful stops and the real business of the club in the here and now takes over. It is now a new business and not the old one and Brent must be judged on this not what happened a year ago. What I'm talking about is hard cash in the real world rather than some assumed cash that exists only on a balance sheet. This it amounts to the same thing even if he hasn't spent anything is bolloxs. Smoke an mirrors in a finacial gobledegook world. I expected him to put his hand in his ocket and spend some real money. Not a lot but certainly not assumed cash. He does not appear to have done that and doesn't appear to be going to do that anytime soon. If there is suspicion of the man then I can see where it would come from.

I am speaking for myself and quoting what others appear to think also. I might not be as vocal or dismissive of Brent as some and do not agree with the extreme view some hold. However, I'm not overly enamoured with what has and is happening on and off the pitch. We have no choice now as Brent is the owner so we are stuck with him for good or bad. The supporters who pay their money over do have a choice whether they stick with Brent. My concern is that unless they see some improvement in the fare on offer then they will no longer stick with it and choose to do something else on a matchday. This is an entertainment business and as such has a job to entertain. Many matches seen in the last 12 months do not fall into the entertaining category. You can agree or disagree with that but I know what I see and you don't. I know you can't attend so that isn't a "I'm a better supporter than you" dig either. But the truth is you don't see matches and the absolute crap served up. It is getting better but it is slow an painful. I do get sick and tired of the adage that you cannot criticise Brent for anything and I get sick and tired of the idea that you should not expect him to assist in providing entertainment for his paying customers. As said it is an entertainment business.
 
Here Here! Totally agree. Its time for Brent to cough up some real cash? Does he have any? a lot of pissed of supporters that wont be hanging around to watch crap much longer....

Last year is history.. we have moved on a year so forget the past and get real Brent!!
 
Sorry, Joe, that isn't going to happen. Brent has said the club must live within its means. And that, to coin a phrase, is only sensible after the mess the last lot made spending money we didn't have. How's the boy, by the way, long time no speak!
 
sensiblegreeny said:
I think it is fairly obvious that I wasn't talking about current wages but the old unpaid ones notdistant. You can shout how great Brent is all you like but the fact is that he hasn't put his hand in his pocket for anything much. I was indeed grateful there was somebody to take over Argyle and not let it die. However this is now a current business rather than a dying one and there comes a time when being grateful stops and the real business of the club in the here and now takes over. It is now a new business and not the old one and Brent must be judged on this not what happened a year ago. What I'm talking about is hard cash in the real world rather than some assumed cash that exists only on a balance sheet. This it amounts to the same thing even if he hasn't spent anything is bolloxs. Smoke an mirrors in a finacial gobledegook world. I expected him to put his hand in his ocket and spend some real money. Not a lot but certainly not assumed cash. He does not appear to have done that and doesn't appear to be going to do that anytime soon. If there is suspicion of the man then I can see where it would come from.



How do you sensible compare your comments with Rodger Ruse's comments on "Argyle Insider" entitled...."Quality Football"....which you can find on the NEWSNOW site.

Do you think he is wearing very green tinted glasses or is he is just being a tad too optimistic ?
Click to expand...
 
Just been listening to Gordon Sparks interviewing Carl Fletcher on the GoS page............and Gordon said something that gob smacked me......that Argyle had not won back to back games for 17 months.....unbelievable,that is a terrible situation....there obviously a long way to go before improvement can be spoken about.
 
Hi Mac,

Hope your all ok. Yep it seems no money will be spent, but the supporters need to see some action from Brent, yes i understand the way it is.. its unfortunate... as a few more in and some of them out we could start to push a bit..

The boy is not to bad thanks, not much different but its a struggle, we are coping and doing all we can for him, thanks for asking.
 
I'm not going to start reading endless opinions of what Brent is or has achived plymborn. I have made my own opinion and it is as stated. I know he isn't going to spend wads of cash and I know he has said that the club should be self sufficient and I don't disagree with that as a mantra. There is a difference of spending some cash though and I don't believe it would take a lot. I cannot see where he has spent anything at all in real terms in acquiring the club in the first place or since. The problem I have is that it all seems to be done on the cheap. I also remember him talking about Argyle being a club which should be in a higher place in the pecking order. I see no real intent on his part to put us there however. I think he believes it will just happen on it's own which could take years. It is that thought that leads me to believe the masses will not just carry on paying out in current numbers. Given some hope of better times and even reducing the cost just might keep them coming long enough. £20 for a match is a lot for what is on offer. £340 for a season ticket is a lot also if marginally less expensive. A bit of investment to show people he has intent would be incentive for a lot.

The bottom line is that it is unlikely to happen and I know deep down it won't. Doesn't stop me wanting it or being of the opinion he should do something. I cannot see where he has spent anything as said and I have yet to read any opinion that he has or even opinion that he has. His outside interests are well documented though and people can see he has made or will make money. Clearly people think he has used his association with Argyle to obtain development interests from PCC and I cannot think of an argument to think otherwise myself. This is where the distrust comes in and it isn't difficult to see why to some extent. There are some very astute people who post on chat sites and some who understand the intracacies of business and a balance sheet. Some of them are quite sceptical also and it is hard for the layman such as myself to know which side to form an opinion on. Hence my jury is still out stance or as others might call it fence sitting. We shall see and I hope these people are wrong because if Argyle fails again it has nothing left on the shelf as a selling point for another stint.
 
Mexijan and Notdistant ..... on no account go onto Pasoti there is already 4 pages of fans calling for Fletcher's head ..... I listened to the match on the radio and it was plain to see that it wasn't working out on the pitch, and unfortunately Fletcher isn't experienced to know how to change it .... fans are already voting with their feet and 1,000 down on the first home match of the season ..... sorry but it really is taxi for Fletcher !!!!
 
Not sure to be honest Tisdale and Martin Ling type managers as they seem to be able to put out decent teams on limited resources. Dont get me wrong I feel for Fletcher as at the end of the day he is just a player who was a cheap option at the time, the only thing I blame Fletcher for is not holding his hands up and saying " I am clearly out of my depth" because he definately is Mexijan .....
 
We need a manager who has succeeded in the lower leagues......who has been managing say for ten years.....who has a team of coaches that can come with him.

A motivator on the training ground and during the match.....who can read what is necessary to do to change a match to his teams advantage.

Someone who maybe has been knocked at a higher level and is looking to rebuild his own career.......and regain that higher position by taking Argyle with him'

Other than that it's a doddle.....names on a postcard please to Mr James Brent c/o......PAFC............
 
No way do we need Paul Sturrock who failed miserably during his last stint here, it took forever to get rid of him and by the time they finally had the balls to do it Argyle were damaged beyond repair.
 
Over the last few years we have had several manangers come and go that have gone on to take teams into the premiership. I think it will take time rather than a new manager to sort out the problems we have. That said if we are close to bottom in November then we are going to have to change something a that will probably be the manager. Maybe a case of who wold want the job rather than who do we want tho.
 
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