Signings

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Whilst like I said before, I agree that we may not be the most attractive club, and seen as "lesser" to Newcastle (read my above postings) I certainly don't think we are the LEAST attractive club. Compared to about 8-9 other clubs in the division, we probably seem a better option.

I think the time it is taking to sort deals out is less about us being the last resort, but more down to the mercenary nature of the modern footballer, trying to work the competition between clubs to start a bidding war for wages. If they can wait for 2 or 3 other clubs to join the race, then inevitably someone is going to have to offer more £££ per week. This happened to some extent with Larsson, thankfully the Bruce factor did help speed things up in this case.
 
MackemMatty said:
Whilst like I said before, I agree that we may not be the most attractive club, and seen as "lesser" to Newcastle (read my above postings) I certainly don't think we are the LEAST attractive club. Compared to about 8-9 other clubs in the division, we probably seem a better option.
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It's subjective, and really depends on who you want to sign and who is competing for the players signature. With some players, Sunderland will be the best choice by far. However, with other players who are sought after by top teams, you will be one of the least attractive propositions, so it becomes much harder. We experienced that problem with the likes of Gameiro and Gervinho.
 
I totally understand. But I would expect us to pursue realistic targets. Whilst there will be some Sunderland fans who think we should play football manager, and have a crack at Gervinho (Trust me, I remember reading totally serious speculation about Gervinho to us last year) IM firmly in the camp that it is effective signings, not champagne signings, that will help us kick on.
 
MackemMatty said:
I totally understand. But I would expect us to pursue realistic targets. Whilst there will be some Sunderland fans who think we should play football manager, and have a crack at Gervinho (Trust me, I remember reading totally serious speculation about Gervinho to us last year) IM firmly in the camp that it is effective signings, not champagne signings, that will help us kick on.
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I agree. With us, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Cabaye and Marveaux for around £13mill total is the type of business which I absolutely adore. I'd rather have them four over one £13mill player anyday of the week.
 
Chappaz said:
<doh>



If I stroll in and say what I said about Sunderland on its own then I'm sure I'd get a flurry of mackems telling me why I can't talk because my team hasn't done this and hasn't done that. I'm just getting it out of the way and using it as a comparison to make my point.

And Syd asked this:



One point he touched on was that they take so long because players might not be interested and may see you guys as a last resort. I'm just expanding on it.
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Normally you talk sense mate and i like to read your comments but this isn't about us versus them, HANDSOME Syd asked why do we seem to take ages making signings and we do we appear to be less attractive to the top players. NOT are we better or worse than you lot.
 
Also forgets that because someone is free, he's not that good...

Well watch where Larsson picks the ball up from.....way inside his own half....yep not as good as a crocked frog...hmm
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Doesn't look slow to me.
 
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mackemwelder said:
Normally you talk sense mate and i like to read your comments but this isn't about us versus them, HANDSOME Syd asked why do we seem to take ages making signings and we do we appear to be less attractive to the top players. NOT are we better or worse than you lot.
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I'm well aware. Like I said though, it was just to use my point as a comparison. I could have used a different team to make the same point, like Everton or Aston Villa, but I know much more about my team to do it. Teams don't necessarily have to win things to be more or less attractive to players. It can all come down to the positions they've been in, the hype they've created and the players they've signed over the years.
 
Thats another thing Commanchio, Ive read several opinions on Larsson, here and on RTG, that he is slow. The only thing suggesting he is slow are his score on Fifa 11!
 
Chappaz said:
I agree. With us, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Cabaye and Marveaux for around £13mill total is the type of business which I absolutely adore. I'd rather have them four over one £13mill player anyday of the week.
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Tiote proved he was adecent player last year but a bit, well a huge liability as far as bookings/sendings off goes? How many games did he miss on his way to being crowned the dirtiest player in the EPL last season?

Arfa is totally unproven, as he received that horrific injury very early into his career at your place and may well not make it back to the level you all hope he can attain anyway. He could easily just fade away after the first crunching tackle goes in on match day 1.

As for Cabaye and Marveaux, you seem to be placing a huge amount of hope and expectation on two lads who have no EPL experience at all. With most foreigners, they take time to adapt and now Nolan is missing and Barton could well be by the time of the new season, with 2 or 3 clubs interested in offering him a good deal, they could vanish without a trace very quickly. I accept that it could go the other way too but its a very risky strategy IMO.

Its all very well and good saying 4 is better than 1 so long as the 4 have enough pedigree to suggest they can handle that expectation. Before they signed, you knew nothign about the recent 2, You tubed Arfa and then saw Ba for WHU in 12 games.

I wouldnt be so excited as I would be nervous about the coming season in your shoes, just as I will for our signings but in Larsson and maybe Gardener I know they can handle the EPl and Westwood is an international keeper with 5 seasons behind him in England. Other targets we are trying for in the likes of N'Zogbia, Vaughan, O Shea, Brown and Gibson all have some considerable game time at this level and that is vital in the English top flight IMO.

I'm not having a dig, just commenting as I see it.
 
I've trawled through a few of the other teams pages and to be fair it's not like there is much happening around at the moment anywhere.

The pages are full of speculation and gossip but little else. Is the window even open yet? I know we are waiting for the first of the month to tie a few players up...is that when it officially open?

It's still what? Six or seven weeks til the start of the season? Who at this time last year saw Gyan coming? No-one.....probably not even the man himself! We should relax a bit....
 
I read an article on the Newcastle board recently, about us signing Larsson and Dong. Obviously it was deriding us for it.

http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/57996-Unwashed..?highlight=larsson

Let them have their moment

They go for Larsson and Dong as we go for French international Cabaye and proven EPL striker Ba. And with a few more to follow.
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What I find strange about this is that its all down to semantics. Whilst 5 Goals 1 hattrick says they sign a French international and a proven EPL player, and mocks our signings, he failed to mention all 3 of our signing so far are fairly established in their international team, and Larsson has plenty of Premier League experience.

Guess you can make anything sound **** if you pick the right words ;)
 
I think Chappaz's remarks are highly pertinent and a logical follow-on from Syd's opening remarks.
How come up to the 50s, the North-East was the hotbed of football? Then, in the 60s, 70s and 80s we went off the map. What happened?
Then, Newcastle got their act together and nearly won the league and played regularly in Europe. What was their policy? This is a genuine question, nothing rhetorical, I mean. I remember they had players like Ginola and Laurent. Did they go out and buy big names of the time (well, perhaps Laurent wasn't a BIG name) or was their a youth policy combined with that?
Then we got it together behind Quinn and Phillips but then threw it away. How come?
My question, following on from Chappaz's thoughts, is how do teams get up there and how do they stay up there? Obviously, Chelsea and ManC have one answer but what about ManU, Arsenal and Liverpool. Manchester and Liverpool weren't "attractive" areas in the 60s (though the Beatles certainly put the latter on the map) - just as the North-East isn't an "attractive" area now.
Do we give youth its fling, as ManU did with their golden generation of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Neville & Co. Do we at least maintain managerial stability as those aforementinoed teams did with Shankly, Ferguson and Wenger (an argument for resisting Bruce-out calls)? Do we bring in a talisman as were Cantona, Bergkamp, Keegan (both player and manager)?
I would just be interested to see if anyone can shed any light on what we were doing right in the past to be at the top of English football, what mistakes we made to fall off the pedestal (or was it inevitable given the economic situation?).
What odds the August 20th derby not being shown live, being considered a parochial feud rather than a sporting event of any value? I would love Sunderland and Newcastle to get back up there and tip the balance of English football back the way it was when I was a toddler but what has to be done? What ingredient is missing?
 
Cestriamackem said:
Tiote proved he was adecent player last year but a bit, well a huge liability as far as bookings/sendings off goes? How many games did he miss on his way to being crowned the dirtiest player in the EPL last season?

Arfa is totally unproven, as he received that horrific injury very early into his career at your place and may well not make it back to the level you all hope he can attain anyway. He could easily just fade away after the first crunching tackle goes in on match day 1.

As for Cabaye and Marveaux, you seem to be placing a huge amount of hope and expectation on two lads who have no EPL experience at all. With most foreigners, they take time to adapt and now Nolan is missing and Barton could well be by the time of the new season, with 2 or 3 clubs interested in offering him a good deal, they could vanish without a trace very quickly. I accept that it could go the other way too but its a very risky strategy IMO.
Its all very well and good saying 4 is better than 1 so long as the 4 have enough pedigree to suggest they can handle that expectation. Before they signed, you knew nothign about the recent 2, You tubed Arfa and then saw Ba for WHU in 12 games.

I wouldnt be so excited as I would be nervous about the coming season in your shoes, just as I will for our signings but in Larsson and maybe Gardener I know they can handle the EPl and Westwood is an international keeper with 5 seasons behind him in England. Other targets we are trying for in the likes of N'Zogbia, Vaughan, O Shea, Brown and Gibson all have some considerable game time at this level and that is vital in the English top flight IMO.

I'm not having a dig, just commenting as I see it.
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You all seem to be banding this line that we are signing unproven French players and pinning our hopes on them, but I have read in some other posts today how Gyan and Sess are the key to your season, both players from Ligue 1 and 1 is still very much unproven at PL level in Sess and many of your fans towards the end of last season were calling for him to be dropped when you were on the winless run.

As it stands both teams have bought the type of players they were missing last season, Newcastle needed players with technical ability and Cayabe and Marv have this, Sunderland lacked PL experienced players to fill out there squad, and Larsson will ad this
 
Nowaday's it's gotta be about money. Plain and simple.

While the Mags were re-known a decade+ ago, that is a long time in football terms.

While we all won't admit it (inc. them) we are just a name on the world stage, and nothing more. No more than making up numbers, it boils down to the money factor.

You spend it, you hope for sucess, if it happens you are famous. Nobody remembers the nearly men.

Man City are nowt on the world stage, until they start winning, they ain't gotta pray, of getting anywhere near their city rivals.

Money Money, hope and pray.
 
cyprussydsafc said:
Following on from the N'Zogbia and Gibbson threads I am starting to get a little sick of the assumed difficulties that some players seem to have with us.

I know all about holidays and negotiations and I may be assume things that are not correct, but.

N'zogbia, around 18 months
Gibbson,Brown,Oshea, nearly a month
Ngog, nearly a month
Vaughn, nearly a month

Now like everyone else I have no idea how far we are with these but reading between the lines it seems that if any of these wanted to be here they would be.

Do we really want players who see us as last resort.
Or is it the way we do it thats wrong, we do seem to take longer than everyone else.
Or is this the price we pay for being in the north east but trying to attract better players.
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I thought that was why they paid agents vast amounts of money so that they can go away and let the agent handle it. Another slant on that could be the agent not telling the player the full story so as to hold out for a bigger club and payday for themselves.
 
Cestriamackem said:
Tiote proved he was adecent player last year but a bit, well a huge liability as far as bookings/sendings off goes? How many games did he miss on his way to being crowned the dirtiest player in the EPL last season?
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Why are you picking at something so trivial? So what if he gets a lot of bookings? He's an absolutely exceptional player, and he's a key part of our side. The bookings don't bother any of us because they're not down to him being a 'dirty player'. It's usually more of a technical yellow booking as opposed to making harsh or dirty tackles.

Arfa is totally unproven, as he received that horrific injury very early into his career at your place and may well not make it back to the level you all hope he can attain anyway. He could easily just fade away after the first crunching tackle goes in on match day 1.
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Yeah he could, but it could also get back to full fitness and be an exceptional player for us. He didn't play many games but he played enough to prove that he's a real talent.

As for Cabaye and Marveaux, you seem to be placing a huge amount of hope and expectation on two lads who have no EPL experience at all. With most foreigners, they take time to adapt and now Nolan is missing and Barton could well be by the time of the new season, with 2 or 3 clubs interested in offering him a good deal, they could vanish without a trace very quickly. I accept that it could go the other way too but its a very risky strategy IMO.
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It isn't very risky at all. They're football clubs and they have scouting systems to try and find players who have the attributes to play in the EPL. Some players are flops, but more often than not, they succeed here. Most of our foreign players (Krul, Enrique, Colo, Tiote, Jonas, Ben Arfa) have lived up to expectations, so I have enough confidence in our scouts to be optimistic about these players.

I wouldnt be so excited as I would be nervous about the coming season in your shoes, just as I will for our signings but in Larsson and maybe Gardener I know they can handle the EPl and Westwood is an international keeper with 5 seasons behind him in England. Other targets we are trying for in the likes of N'Zogbia, Vaughan, O Shea, Brown and Gibson all have some considerable game time at this level and that is vital in the English top flight IMO.
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Of course it isn't 'vital'. If it was vital, then no one could buy foreign players because they would all be flops. There's a reason why many of the top 10 teams are filled with so many foreign players, you know.

There's always a bit of a gamble, but the reward can pay off big time if we can buy cheaper foreign players who live up to expectations, and if we want to push for Europe sooner rather than later, it's a risk I feel worth taking.
 
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