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Shrewsbury are pissed

Discussion in 'Ipswich Town' started by YorkieLancsHampyLondoner, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. stretchyboy

    stretchyboy Well-Known Member

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    Frankly my dear.....i don't give a damn.
    He's gone, lets move on and get behind the team which has more pressing issues.
     
    #41
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  2. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    Why does this rankle with you so much, Hampy? The comments are out there, so should we collectively bury our head in the sand and pretend none of this happened? Knowing about this and discussing it on this forum isn't going to change anything. The manager and coach responsible are no longer with the club, and Hurst has come out with his own opinions today, so I do not see the harm discussing these stories. The stories appear to reiterate the viewpoint that our board and owner did not do due diligence on our new manager and that the support structure and current ways of working within the club are flawed.
     
    #42
    Westlake33 likes this.
  3. Westlake33

    Westlake33 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, likewise I don’t get why this rankles with you so much either.
     
    #43
  4. Scowey

    Scowey Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to respond to this as it's an area that has affected my work for the past 12-18 months.. I have worked in Performance sport for a while and been involved with Olympic (and Paralympic) sports and obviously the issues around athlete welfare in sports like Cycling, Swimming, Gymnastics etc. etc. have shed light on "coaching behaviors" (most overused buzzwords I come across)

    There are some fantastic examples of sports updating the coaching qualifications to be less 'technical' and focus more on soft skills (empathy as one example), which is obviously hugely important when dealing with vulnerable groups..
    I'm not too sure that the FA are as proactive as others (appreciate they have a far wider base of coaches to work with).. But to respond to your comment it doesn't go on Everywhere and rightly so when we talk about lottery funded sports.

    but once again I think there are some great examples of practices (within this country) that could be used in Football, but we have a mentality of 'football for footballers' and so coaches & managers are ex players and the cycle continues as they repeat a lot of what they experienced.
     
    #44
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  5. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    I’m from the business world, not sport, but there are lots of different ways and styles to achieve success, some I don’t like and some I do.

    Out of everyone Pep has probably had more of these criticisms from former players and he is coincidentally the best club manager in the world.

    I have tried myself to be nice to and please everybody and that’s the only method that doesn’t work (for me). Note that having respect and being nice are two different things. I’m sure they would have respected Chambo for giving some back. These bitchy rumours do make me sick to the stomach when we are in our current position. If everything was Hurst’s fault then how do you explain the first half against West Brom? That is down to the players and the players alone.

    I really admired Sarri’s press conference at the weekend. When asked whether he liked Ross Barkley’s display he said he didn’t like anybody.

    In football you should win as a team and lose as a team. Our players unfortunately don’t understand that, they think it is all about themselves and that’s one of the big reasons why we are heading for relegation. They should be looking at themselves and saying that they let Hurst down, not all this rubbish - although to be fair it is probably only one or two parasites.
     
    #45
  6. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Have people really forgotten that our own Bobby Robson, widely regarded as one of the best man managers in the game had all sorts of run ins with players over the years? Particularly in his early days at Ipswich and at the end of his time at Newcastle.
     
    #46
  7. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Because Nuggets, the manager has gone but the players are still here - in terms of our players attitude it's really worrying.

    Paul Hurst's comments today are pretty straight forward, common sense and not an attack on anybody. I wouldn't blame him if he did have a little dig after all this.
     
    #47
  8. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    The main difference between Sir Bobby and Paul Hurst is that Sir Bobby was able to achieve results and success at the highest level, while motivating squads to generally perform above their abilities, despite having run-ins with players. Paul Hurst was not able to achieve results at Ipswich Town, managing one win in 15 matches, and therefore his frequent run-ins with players and his general managerial style appears to have been detrimental to this squad, affecting our league position and the shortness of his time here.
     
    #48
    Westlake33 likes this.
  9. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare Bobby Robson's success over a long career with Hurst's couple of months at the club, especially given the poor state he found the club in and the amount of time it took for Robson to get going at Ipswich - his first full seasons we finished 18th and 19th.

    Not to say that Hurst will ever go on to emulate Robson, few managers will, but this kind of criticism of his and Doig's man management really is a load of nonsense.
     
    #49
  10. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    The leaks have apparently come from one player in the team and from a couple of the backroom staff that were there under the Mick years. For example, the leaked team sheet that appeared a couple of hours before the Brentford game on the TWTD forum came from a coach still at the club.

    For the record, I've read the Hurst interview transcript and I don't have an issues with his comments. As you say, they are balanced, considered, and, to me, very valid. He's rightly attributed that the primary factor of the club's troubles stems from our financial situation, budget, and the lack of investment (although he doesn't quite spell it out so bluntly like that). He rightly has an issue with the poor performances of the senior players at the club, who, let's be honest, have performed poorly throughout this season. The one issue I did have with his interview is that he didn't show enough responsibility for his own failings and seemed intent on blaming everything else. His poor transfer record, team selections, and changing of tactics (as well as these reported falling-outs behind the scenes) were ultimately his responsibility.
     
    #50

  11. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Do you not think that there's a fairly big chance that our problems have been largely caused by this player and these backstabbing backroom staff undermining Hurst?

    I don't agree there was a problem with transfers. I didn't like the tactics from day one but I'm sure the first person to analyse this own failings will be the man himself.
     
    #51
  12. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that because Sir Bobby had run-ins with players and achieved success that it validates Paul Hurst's hard-nosed approach, which was the implication in your initial comment which namedropped Sir Bobby in this conversation.

    I imagine all managers have falling outs with players at football clubs, it's hardly rare. What is rare is the sight of a football club leaking a team sheet and numerous stories about the conduct and behaviour of its manager and assistant manager, while they are in charge and following their departure. You can question the professionalism of the squad, or at least the one alleged player who leaked some of the stories, but the fact that Marcus Evans, a patient owner willing to give the likes of Keane, Jewell, and McCarthy months longer than they deserved, was so quick to sack Hurst speaks volumes. In general, the amount of negativity and the example of Bart coming out to give his damning opinion on Hurst, makes me believe it was a failing of the manager, more than a failing of the players.
     
    #52
  13. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    I don't see this as a problem with Hurst at all. It's a problem with the culture at the club and when that is rotten at the top of course it is going to seep out of every pore of the club.

    The clear evidence of this will be the results over the rest of the season and also how Hurst performs in his future career. If the problem was Hurst's man management then our performances and results will improve exponentially and we'll get out of the drop zone. Of course, that is not going to happen because it was never the issue in the first place.
     
    #53
  14. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    That's one way of looking at it, sure. Another way of looking at it is that we hired the wrong manager (again) who was either out of his depth at this level or completely underestimated this division. His chopping and changing of players, poor tactical choices, and ultimately his awful win ratio over 15 games makes me think he probably either wasn't cut out for a Championship job or needed more experience at a bigger club than Shrewsbury or Grimsby before taking the hotseat at Portman Road.
     
    #54
  15. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's another debate entirely.
     
    #55
  16. Westlake33

    Westlake33 Well-Known Member

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    Of course it's a problem with Hurst. Not a lot came out under Mick.

    It came out left right and centre under Hurst - can only come to the conclusion that many didn't like him.
     
    #56
  17. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Nothing came out under Mick because everything was so laid back and everyone was happy. It was like a holiday camp for the players.

    I wouldn't say it proves that many didn't like him. Hurst says today that everyone was pretty happy at the beginning of the season and that changed with results. Many are humiliated and upset to be bottom of the league, for sure. But they have not reacted in the right way and they continued embarrassing themselves against West Brom.
     
    #57
  18. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    I would love to know who this 'one player' is. Any ideas Nuggets / Westlake ?
     
    #58
  19. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    The problem was not just Hurst's man-management, but numerous reasons debated elsewhere. The two main reasons, for me, is Evans' ownership and lack of investment, in general, and the poor quality of the squad (of which Hurst's signings are partly to blame). Hurst's poor man-management, in my opinion, has ensured that this club could not and did not perform above its standards (unlike what Mick and other Ipswich managers have achieved) and that has contributed to our single win in 15 games under Hurst's.

    Most of us acknowledged that Lambert would have achieved an impressive feat if he keeps this team up. If we do get relegated, which I think we will, I don't believe that will somehow paint Hurst's stint here in a more positive light or validate his obvious issues with managing this group of players.
     
    #59
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  20. Westlake33

    Westlake33 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really sure it was a Heidi Hi camp with Mick - I'd imagine they did a lot of training etc - but sure, Hurst seemed more intense and not so happy with the fitness.

    Embarrass ourselves vs WBA!? Not having that. They have a good side + parachute £££. Not sure what people expect. Not fantastic, but a good effort second half.
     
    #60

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