1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Should We Reintroduce the death penalty

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Kyle?, Aug 4, 2011.

?

Should we reintroduce the death penalty

  1. yes

  2. no

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    I'd agree about people getting off on technicalities, but giving the death penalty to those that intentionally alter or hide evidence doesn't help those that have already been put to death.
     
    #201
  2. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    again the point is that it would be a deterrent to the miscarriage in the first place

    as it stands its too easy to 'fudge' the evidence and there is no come uppence as such

    As with all deaths, it doesnt help the dead but it creates closure for those affected
    The parents, partners, families of those who were killed

    I think when debating this issue everyone looks at it 1 sided. No one looks at it from the point of view of those close to the ones killed, innocently

    remember they didnt choose to be killed, but the perpetrator chose to kill
     
    #202
  3. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    The death penalty isn't a deterrent.

    Your suggestion that the families of those that have died are traumatised is accurate, but it misses out on the trauma that would be inflicted on the families of somebody that was falsely executed.
     
    #203
  4. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    i disagree, the death penalty is a deterrent if the process and procdures are done properly

    I agree with trauma for those that have someone falsely executed
    but there is the assumption that this would be something that happens a lot if at all

    what about the families of the victims of serial killers, who are in jail and make headlines now and again?
     
    #204
  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    The death penalty has not proved to be a deterrent in countries and states that have it, in my understanding.
    Aren't the states in America that have it actually worse off with regards to violent crime and murder, for example?

    People are wrongly convicted.
    It happens.

    The answer to serial killers making headlines and upsetting families is to stop them from making headlines, not to kill them and then have the possibility of subsequent court cases trying to prove their innocence.
    That would cause more headlines.
     
    #205
  6. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    again you miss the point imho

    america is probably the worst place to give as an example, the laws there are complicated to say the least which is a problem

    yes people are wrongly convicted, but we are not talking about the death penalty for every tom dick and harry

    the point about the serial killers is that they are 'proven' to be guilty. hence i only mentioned the likes of sutcliffe and huntley etc

    like i say, it depends on an individual approach to the topic. Mine is that if a person is proven to be guilty of murder(s) then rather than languishing in prison for 40 years, better to be dead for all concerned
     
    #206
  7. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    So you'd only bring back the death penalty for serial killers?
    Would you also include spree killers and how many people would you have to kill to qualify?
     
    #207
  8. GUNNERBEGOOD

    GUNNERBEGOOD Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    DNA is not a cure all. Human beings get involved in the taking and transporting of it so however minuscule there is a possibility of human error. DNA may put you at the scene of a crime, but does not necessarily deal with say the question of intent.

    Although if there were a referendum, they may be a majority in favour of hanging,it would not be as huge as it once would be. You would find juries reluctant to convict someone if they knew they would die. There may have no difficulty in convicting an Ian Huntley, but an 18 year old from a bad background, who has got involved with the wrong crowd, maybe not.
     
    #208
  9. GUNNERBEGOOD

    GUNNERBEGOOD Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    DNA is not a cure all. Human beings get involved in the taking and transporting of it so however minuscule there is a possibility of human error. DNA may put you at the scene of a crime, but does not necessarily deal with say the question of intent.

    Although if there were a referendum, they may be a majority in favour of hanging,it would not be as huge as it once would be. You would find juries reluctant to convict someone if they knew they would die. There may have no difficulty in convicting an Ian Huntley, but an 18 year old from a bad background, who has got involved with the wrong crowd, maybe not.
     
    #209
  10. jenthesaint1990

    jenthesaint1990 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    169
    you can not compare the two judicial systems, they are completely different. in america their system has a big emphasis on punishment, here the emphasis is rehabilitation.
     
    #210

  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    And this change would be a move towards a more American system, as you've defined it, wouldn't it?
     
    #211
  12. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    No i would bring it in for all murderers, where they a re proven without a shadow of a doubt to be guilty
    i think a answers b too
     
    #212
  13. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    why not use a different example, say japan where the death penalty was in force until 2009 generally and certain crimes today
    It seemed to be a deterrent

    The US has appeal laws, eg Manson has been appealing since 1969
    These appeals can keep a person off death row for their lifetime

    In japan no appeals, family of perp didnt even know the date and time
    apparently perp had to take last step unaided and in essence kill themselves

    what are the crime rates in japan for murder? fairly low i hear
     
    #213
  14. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    All convicted murderers are assumed to be guilty without a shadow of a doubt.
    If there's any reasonable doubt, then you're supposed to acquit them.
     
    #214
  15. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    Manson's not on death row.
    He's appealing for his release, which isn't going to happen and he knows it.
    When California did away with the death penalty, all prisoners that were up for it were allowed to ask for parole after seven years.
    He's asked for parole 11 times.

    The Japanese system and society are very different to ours.
    Re-applying the death penalty would have to come as part of our current legal system or as a massive, sweeping change, which is a bigger question.
     
    #215
  16. jenthesaint1990

    jenthesaint1990 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    169
    i dont think so. we need to punish more serious crimes and rehabilitate petty crimes, especially when convicts are young.
     
    #216
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,592
    Likes Received:
    56,063
    I agree.
     
    #217
  18. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    63,752
    Likes Received:
    13,028
  19. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    31,025
    Likes Received:
    4,561
    #219
  20. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    63,752
    Likes Received:
    13,028
    They are being prepared for release, McCulloch was even offered a council house in Dumbarton (Risk Street belive it or not) until the locals started a petition.

    These two animals should have never been released but they are, that's why I would like to see them swing. I know it's never going to happen but as I said if Life actually meant life then fewer people would be for the death penalty.
     
    #220

Share This Page