I agree with smudger in that playing Raylor RM would not suit the style we are trying to play. Yeah he has a better delivery, but how many times would he beat his man and get to put a cross into the box? Not nearly as many times a Ober.
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20 minutes a week wont do Obertan any good. He needs games to improve, we cant expect him to be good straight away.
Yes, as was everyone else bar Colo n Willo, drop em all i say...............................................
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
Mate, I'm not saying It's a long term plan. It's just an experiment, for 1 or 2 games. If it doesn't work than we can easily switch it back.
I like Ober in ways. I think he could be a fantastic player, but if there's someone that could do a better job on that wing, he should start ahead of him, and I think Raylor deserves the chance to prove that he could be better.
Raylor's scored goals and got an assist more than Obertan, and he's done that from the fullback position. You can get a player with no pace in the crossing area by passing and movement, which is how Barton got in those areas.
Raylor got into that position to cross yesterday and picked out HBA well.
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
Why do people respond to comments without thinking about the comment that someone was responding to?
My comment makes sense if you realise the fact that I was replying to someone who said Ober had a good game yesterday, which he didn't. He had a good 5 minutes, not a good game.
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
OK, it's an experiment. Two outcomes.
1. It fails, utter waste of time and hurts Obertan's confidence.
2. He plays decent, but as you've said he isnt the long term solution, so how long do you plan to keep a promising player out of the side for a very limited 27 year old full back, just because he had a decent couple of games?
Best case scenario, he plays 2 or 3 good games then is dropped shortly after anyway. Either way stunts Obertan's development and hurts his confidence and morale.
1. It fails, utter waste of time and hurts Obertan's confidence.
2. He plays decent, but as you've said he isnt the long term solution, so how long do you plan to keep a promising player out of the side for a very limited 27 year old full back, just because he had a decent couple of games?
Best case scenario, he plays 2 or 3 good games then is dropped shortly after anyway. Either way stunts Obertan's development and hurts his confidence and morale.
Would prefer Obertan, over Raylor, but Sammy over both.
Obertan was ****e yesterday, with the assist being the only thing he did well. The fact he was scared to beat his fullback all game, part from when Tiote intercepted the ball which give Obertan the amount a space a battleship could turn in.
Obertan was ****e yesterday, with the assist being the only thing he did well. The fact he was scared to beat his fullback all game, part from when Tiote intercepted the ball which give Obertan the amount a space a battleship could turn in.
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
Or 3. He proves more effective and we have a solution to our lack of quality from the right hand side.
IMO it's wrong to keep a good player out of the team because with think the player who is currently in the team could be a good player one day.
I think the player who proves himself best for the job should get the game time over the player that could be a good player in the future.
I know people may say that we have the points so If we suffer a bit because of Obers lack of quality at the moment, it's not big deal, and we can keep improving Ober.
But we will hopefully have a better right midfielder than Obertan in by next season.
I will be extremely pissed off if Pardew decides to stick with Obertan, and doesn't buy a new winger in the summer.
I don't think Ober is ****, but I'd rather not rely on him for a large amount of time.
If Raylor does well it wont last, he's not an amazing winger just because he has a decent cross. You agreed yourself that it wont work long term, so option 3 wont happen.
No, I'd prefer us to retain our pace. Obertan is far from perfect and is unbelievably frustrating to watch but he got an assist yesterday, if he does that every game then I think we'll all agree that he is doing his job very well. He's still got to improve though and if he doesn't start producing the goods regularly by the end of the season we need to start looking at other options. In short though, I want quick wingers and not cloggers who cross from deep all the time, I used to hate watching us when there was no pace in our team - look at Spurs, they have it in abundance and look so dangerous all the time.
It annoys me how unintelligent some fans are about football (and I mean that in the least snobbish way possible). Obertan is 22, has played roughly 20 games of Premiership football, and yet people keep expecting him to put in man of the match performances every game. This witch-hunt against the lad has to stop, people cheering his substitutions and even booing him is bang out of order when for me he's done no less this season to merit his place in the side than say, Jonas.
I actually think Obertan offers a lot defensively, he tracks back well (which surprises me), he is starting to learn how to beat his fullback and utilise it better, and yesterday he tormented Robinson every time he went forward. Every game is a learning curve in the Premiership, he's played actually really well in some games (Arsenal, Fulham, Stoke, Man Utd, Bolton), not so well in others and he is incredibly frustrating, but I think it's obvious to anyone with a football brain that dropping him when he's done nothing to deserve it will hinder his development, especially if the ludicrous idea the OP mentions is implemented and we play a 27-year old reserve fullback who offers nothing more than a decent cross in his place. We all know he has a big issue with confidence, giving him a run of 20 games then dropping him for Ryan Taylor (who has played well at LB, but done nothing of the sort to deserve a RM slot) could undo all the good work Pardew has done with the lad.
Ferguson said that Obertan has the ability, just sadly Man Utd couldn't afford to let him have a run in the team for as long as it's going to take to hone him into a good footballer. We can afford that luxury, so give him time! He's only 22 ffs
I actually think Obertan offers a lot defensively, he tracks back well (which surprises me), he is starting to learn how to beat his fullback and utilise it better, and yesterday he tormented Robinson every time he went forward. Every game is a learning curve in the Premiership, he's played actually really well in some games (Arsenal, Fulham, Stoke, Man Utd, Bolton), not so well in others and he is incredibly frustrating, but I think it's obvious to anyone with a football brain that dropping him when he's done nothing to deserve it will hinder his development, especially if the ludicrous idea the OP mentions is implemented and we play a 27-year old reserve fullback who offers nothing more than a decent cross in his place. We all know he has a big issue with confidence, giving him a run of 20 games then dropping him for Ryan Taylor (who has played well at LB, but done nothing of the sort to deserve a RM slot) could undo all the good work Pardew has done with the lad.
Ferguson said that Obertan has the ability, just sadly Man Utd couldn't afford to let him have a run in the team for as long as it's going to take to hone him into a good footballer. We can afford that luxury, so give him time! He's only 22 ffs
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
I wish people would grasp the fact that I'm not saying we should give up on Ober.
I'm just saying we should try and experiment and give other players a chance, and also see if Ober could do a better job as an impact sub.
What If Ober comes on later in the game as an impact player, and starts to score or get more assists? That could boost his confidence.
It's worth a try IMO.
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Heavy Metal Toon
Guest
And Shola Amadonkey, I assume that your first sentence about unintelligent fans is a subtle dig towards me. It's uncalled for really. I was just stating my opinion.
TomTom94
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should play Benny on the right, as he can't make 90 minutes we take him off after an hour then Ober comes on in his place?
No, actually, it was not. It was aimed at the people who seem to have unrealistic expectations of the lad. I never once indicate it is towards you.
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