Off Topic Shooting in Las Vegas

I stand corrected.

I agree, it’s an awful situation, barely comprehensible from our perspective. But the reality is far from the violent anarchy events like this suggest. And at least it gives us the opportunity to feel morally superior.

 

The level of response from too many US citizens has been shocking.

The arguments for Gun Controls are simple, obvious, and well understood. But when you get people saying that 'if someone wants to kill you, they will do it with a knife, or a truck, or a club' as if this actually supports their argument for more guns.

Well, as soon as it's shown that a man can kill 59 people and injure over 500 others, from 1200 feet away and thirty-two floors up, in fifteen minutes, armed with as many knives as he can stockpile - then your argument makes sense. As soon as you can be killed at that distance by a club, or a truck, then fine.

Until then, it's just more deflection.

The other thing is the US Government's responses. This was domestic terrorism plain and simple, Had the shooter not been white, it would have been called out as such immediately and used to further Trump's racist agenda. Because he was white, suddenly he's a lone wolf with mental illness. I call bullshit on that. And were I in front of trump, I would do so to his face.

 

So what difference would it make if you called it Domestic Terroriism?

 

Well...

a) because that's what it is.
b) because calling it terrorism when it's any other than white american perpetuates the racist current that is evident in US society at large.
c) because calling him a 'lone wolf' with 'mental issues' allows the NRA and the government to ignore it as a one-off that will absolve them of any responsibility.
d) because not calling it for what it is gives freedom to lawmakers to keep things just as they are and continue taking the kick-backs from the gun industry and NRA, whilst many many thousands of innocent people will continue to be needlessly murdered on the streets of America.

Is that enough of a difference?

 

So it would make no difference then, people will still have died, people will still have been injured, and guns will still be available. Just saw that 32% of Americans own guns and each own about 8 guns each. Nothing is going to change whatever you call it.

 

Of course it would make a difference. It would mean that the same pressure that Trump is putting on preventing acts he calls terrorism would be then applied to people like this guy - which would bring enormous weight of opinion against uncontrolled gun ownership.

And I would dispute your figures unless you have independent sources for the numbers - given the number of guns in the US, 32 million owners wouldn't cover the number even if they ALL have eight. There are more guns than people in the US at the moment. Over 300 million guns. What 'civilised' country needs that many guns in the hands of their population?

And why the hell does anyone need eight or more guns?

And why do any of them need to be assault rifles?

 

Trying hard to get my head around some of the gun figures that you two are putting out there,
Durbar is saying that 32% of Americans own guns (population c320m, 32% of which is roughly 100m)
If each owns about 8 each, quoting Durbar, that amounts to about 800m guns.

On the other hand, WLW says the there are more guns than people in the US, about 300m guns, but there are roughly 320m people there too, so slightly below parity as far as I can see.
Anyway guys, carry on as normal

 

You'd probably need an arsenal of guns just to get to the front of the queue for that...

 

I actually think that the American people's attitude to the right to bare arms is very similar to our attitude over here towards drinking (go with me!)
If a change in gun law is suggested to Americans they tend to get very defensive and say that it is their way of life etc. Say to the British that we should do something about the terrible binge drinking culture and "a few glasses of wine every night" culture and we tend to react in the same way. Drinking kills thousands and brings misery to thousands more and yet we resist all calls to limit it, even joking about how much we all drink and how pissed we get. Makes you think eh?

 

Good analogy Col.

I also think the second amendment has become iconic to many Americans. In Western Europe we have got used to government telling us what to do, in a trade off for the government giving us stuff like healthcare. The attitude in the US is the reverse - more ‘we’ll look after ourselves, just leave us alone, do the bare minimum. Who the **** are you to tell me I can’t have a gun?’ It’s like there is an ancestral memory that their forebears often arrived fleeing oppression and looking for opportunity, not expecting any help just freedom to do their best (obviously not true for one large section of the population). It’s a shame that guns happen to be the issue which crystallises this. Likewise with us that drink is the thing we put our foot down for!

 

Can’t understand the attraction to the killer he was a evil Cnut and he is dead I would of started a thread like this with your last line first

 

On the money Col and well highlighted We have generations of culture telling us it’s acceotable to drink and brag about it ... it is disgraceful imo a low tax killer and nothing is done
Beer is cheaper than water what a mess

 

You've got a good point, Col. Reminds me of a joke I'm very fond of...

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None, but the lightbulb has to really, really, really want to change.

 

Willy I aggree with your last two sentences, the gun laws here are ludicrous,

There is an enourmous weight of opinion against the gun laws here, by far the majoirity of people think the laws are obcene but the NRA and a minority of people control congress so nothing will change, in fact wants to allow people now to have silences attached to thier guns.

You have miscalculated the figures I gave, the population is about 350 million so 35% is morw than 100 million. The figures I heared on this morning news program.
And back to the original point, calling it aything you like will make no difference.

 

As great as some of things it’s given the war America for me still remains as the original source of all things that are wrong with the world

More harm than good comes that country imo

 

Can’t agree with the analogy as much as others I’m afraid.

Binge drink and you could kill yourself.

If by binge drinking you could target and kill scores of others, then I could think of them in the same context.

The only way that drink kills others is when you link it with driving, and that has near universal condemnation.

 

I thought I heard that alcohol related deaths was around 9-10k a year in the U.K. sorry but I see a death as a death. The dead can’t speak of course but maybe many of these deaths if given the hypothetical choice would choose another way to leave to the certainty of life end?

We are talking therefore about Alcohol taking lives ?

 

I think America has and will always be culturally centred around the gun

We chose another way thankfully

Their culture is what it is

 

stop it
i can drink as much as i like
dont try and limit it
its in the constitution somewhere man

 

Kiwi we are doing to die you and me both I wouldn’t worry about the alcohol it’s Eggs they are killing thousands while we are on this forum
Chickens also I say burn them all