You're right about the lethargy. I don't know what's gone wrong with Warburton's power of reasoning, but it's increasingly way off logic. Like RTID, I'm sympathetic that he and the team find themselves in this position. Really disappointing. I'd love some insider knowledge about what's happening inside the R's camp. David Mac, do your stuff please. The best I can say now is Warburton's no worse than the flop managers we've had over the last 10 years. I guess he'll be replaced over the summer. The board needs to do some deep thinking about who we bring in and, yes, international borders should not limit the choice. I guess it's just possible that the flair we have shown for a large part of the season, might just convince a manager of worth that the team has potential and it's worth taking the job.
I am very disappointed with last night. Not because of the loss, but the manner of the loss. Sheff Utd, weren't better than us...and probably not a lot more interested than we were either. They were there for the taking by any team that wanted to. The desire to win, which we had in abundance in 2021 had gone. I have no idea why.... there is usually a reason, I wish I knew what it is. I can see us changing managers in the summer, because we cannot take this attitude into the 2022-23 season I am sad and disappointed...not because we are not going up. I didn't think we were ready to give it ago... but the way we have fallen apart. Only good thing I can think about this....who would want to buy any of our rabble and the two who have escaped injured (Dieng and Willock)...probably need to show some form before someone comes in for them.
Well, I’m a little confused about the team I’ve been watching and the one others have this season. I thought for much of the first half we played well in short bursts (like really short bursts a few minutes a game), showed good attacking intent but little control of the game and were winning based more on team spirit and never say die attitude than anything else. At no stage did I think we were a good team, or one better than the majority of those we played. We were just winning. Dunne, Field and intermittently Willock have been good players, and Uncs a one man cavalry charge sometimes. All that has now gone, just illustrating that it’s very fine margins in this league, especially if your team is basically the same as everyone else’s bar Fulham. A good coach will get the most out of the same material everyone else has, so Warburton should be praised for building something that mysteriously worked for a year, and can be slagged for one of the most comprehensive wheels falling off episodes I have witnessed, even at the Rs where we are pretty used to such crappage. Unless there is a bizarre and undeserved miracle in the remaining games he has to go in the summer, simply because he has reached and passed his use by date at this club, like the vast majority of managers always, inevitably, do. The players can see he’s run out of steam and ideas, and, pathetic oafs that they are, have no idea how to help him out of this rut. So he’ll go. Of more concern to me is Les and Ramsey, who are both meant to be setting the tone, ethos, strategy, approach whatever you want to call it at all levels of the club, including the selection of first team coaches who can work within this framework. They seem to be allowed to trundle on regardless without ever being challenged. And they’ve had a fair few years at it now.
Good point. If they are actually pulling a lot of the strings, but the managers are taking the fall for mistakes made, we've clearly installed a broken system that needs to be completely overhauled.
Nicely said, sb. You’ve raised a concern regarding Ramsey & Les, which l have no answer for but fully understand your justification in bringing it up. Milford a club with very little desire to be aggressive and ‘move forward’ ….. l’ve always wonder what Sir Les really does and to what benefit we have in such a role. I am still at a loss why, a club who spends basically nothing on bringing in players and being active in the market, keeps him in this role. Ramsey, l can understand but maybe his time and the benefit of having him, is coming to an abrupt halt. We may need some fresh ideas cause what we have over recent time in development , is stagnant.
The system might be fine*, but you don’t want the same people running it in perpetuity. Even clubs like Ajax, who have a very clearly defined approach and structure at all levels, and have had for decades, change the personnel pretty regularly. * obviously we have no way to judge this as we don’t know what the owners’ objectives/targets are. If it’s to exist in the top half of the championship as a selling club, it’s working. It would be much fairer if the fans knew the targets the management team has been set and agreed to so we can really assess performance. And this is what happens in most industries, my company has very clear and well publicised objectives and we are all rewarded according to how well we do against them. Shareholders demand this transparency, and although we are not proper shareholders I think in some senses fans play a similar role in football.
I think it's far too early to say that the system at the club is broken. The league positions have been better each year for the last few years, the accounts have been better each year for the last few years, and the football is more attractive that it was a few years ago. We've also got more sellable assets than we have done previously and have actually started work on a new training ground. Whatever one thinks on Warburton (and I'm probably more pro-Warburton than most on here but completely understand the frustration over the last two months), I am confident the club is heading in the right direction, especially when compared to many others in our division. I know lots of fans want promotion and PL football as soon as possible (again, I'm less bothered on that than many are I guess), but it's a competitive division and achieving that goal shouldn't be the only arbiter of success. To Sb's point, it would be nice to understand the real targets of the owners, but I'm comfortable with year-on-year progress, which I think has been the general trend in the last 4 years.
Ok, so maybe I jumped the gun in saying the system is broken, I guess to further explain what I mean...there is a problem with the system if it is put in place and when it goes wrong the person who takes the fall is always the manager. Is anyone in a position to ask questions of Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey, and others at the very top of the club? If they are dictating how the club is run/what players come in and out, and then the manager is sacked when signings fail to meet the required standards, that surely puts the manager in a near impossible position.
very much this. I said to my brother if we can get an equaliser we'd go on to win it. Their goalie had not one shot to save, which summed us up. I'd personally like to see Warburton gone, the body language of the players and staff is awful
For me the player we are missing most by a long way is Willock. He provided the creativeness and strength to get past players, make openings and goals. We have nobody that is coming close to providing that now. Chair seems to have gone backwards rather than stepping up to provide what we have lost with Willock's injury. Willock was carrying our attacking threat to a larger extent than I for one realised. Dieng a big loss too especially in his command of the box, even though Marshall and now Westwood have done well. We have a small squad with limited quality outside the best 13/14, whereas the other teams competing for the play-offs with the exception of Luton, and Huddersfield maybe, have larger Budgets and probably bigger, stronger squads to cope with the injuries, suspension etc. Also, many of our older experienced players seem to have suffered an energy loss even when fit enough to start- Austin, Johansen, Wallace and on last nights performance Albert too. I thought we really missed Moses last night and hope he and MaCallum start Saturday to at least give us more pace and hopefully crosses and goal threat down the wings, as well as in defence.
I guess I'd say look at the club four years ago, and look at it now. The general trend is positive. What people are upset about on here is the form of the first team in the last 6-8 games, which comes down to the manager. The performance from the same squad in this period hasn't met the standard he set throughout 2021. I'd say the job Warburton has done over the last four years is still very solid and far more positive than negative. I'm not sure what specifics people would point to with Ferdinand / Ramsey as being the problem now. Whereas with Warburton the specifics are clear - odd subs, odd selections, resistance to trying something new re formation. And I say that as a fan of MW who wouldn't pull the trigger.
If the club were to reveal to the fans a complete lack of ambition like wanting to remain a top half/mid table selling team they would lose the fan base immediately. No ambition = what's the point imo.
How will you feel about Warburton if, as seems likely, we fail to achieve last season's finishing position? What's your opinion of all Warburton's strange team selections and substitutions? Why do you think he played Dunne on the right side of the back three last night when he's looked our best defender for months playing in the centre? Were you happy with last night's substitutions? Do we just remain happy clappy regardless of Warburton's failings?
It would be a huge benefit if we could just stop fuc£ing about in our own half. I rarely see other teams passing the ball backwards so frequently. Yesterday, so many times the ball went back to the keeper even all the way from the other half of the pitch, on occasion. During injury time the same thing happened. No appearance of any sense of urgency or desire to press forward. Aside from the poor recent results, our style of play provides an awful spectacle. Negative, tardy and dismal. I happen to like Warbs, he was undoubtedly doing a great job with limited resource. Certainly the best manager we’ve had since NW. I’m not sure what is needed to improve us beyond a war chest of say £20M+. As things stand, I can’t see anyone else making a silk purse from the sows ear of aged, inexperienced, crocked and (lately) underperforming players we have.
Thought the 3 subs he brought on should’ve played from the off & then bring on Amos & Charlie’s midway through 2nd half, Albert & Hendrick was both ineffective, wasn’t that impressed with Utd last night but our spirit & sharpness has gone, really unbelievable how bad we are playing from Jan, season of two halves, don’t think he’s played the same team in successive games for ages, certainly losing the plot
My clumsily put point was that I have no idea what the owners’ objectives are, not that they are too low, high, conservative or whatever. I’d dearly love to know.
