Serious takeover talk

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Smug in Boots, Aug 21, 2019.

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  1. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    I heard the help for heroes charity 85% of money donated is spent on salaries and admin before any hero gets a penny.
     
    #12361
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  2. Comfy

    Comfy Well-Known Member

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    I know a ex para who was injured in the falklands a bother of an ex of mine, he always told me this about HfH. He won’t have anything to do with them even though he was seriously injured.
     
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  3. turnthetide3

    turnthetide3 Active Member

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    I've just tried to read their accounts for 2018. They are dreadful to navigate through and specsavers don't do a strong enough pair of glasses to read the print. Hmm, Help the Heroes is a charity I readily give money to.
     
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  4. alan reed

    alan reed Well-Known Member

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    remember about 20 years ago, the M.D. of the company i used to work for, who back then must have been on over £80,000 p.a. left to become M.D.of water aid, for a lot more money.
     
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  5. Sheep Farmer

    Sheep Farmer Well-Known Member

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    Well if we're never going to pay the money back they've certainly got something for their investment or else they've taken leave of their senses
     
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  6. Guinness Guzzler

    Guinness Guzzler Well-Known Member

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    I think he's just meaning that SAFC won't ever have to pay it back because it was a loan to Madrox who in turn gave it as a gift to SAFC. So even if it all goes to **** the £10m is technically due to be repaid by Madrox, not the owners. I don't think it implies anything about their future involvement
     
    #12366
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  7. marcusblackcat

    marcusblackcat SAFC Sheriff
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    Ok then most!! Not bollocks at all. I know people working for charities on hundreds of thousands a year! A friend was recently made redundant by a charity, he lives in London and doesn’t need to work now until next March at least because of his payoff.
     
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  8. dred

    dred Well-Known Member

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    As long as a charity, it does not matter which one, successfully helps one person to get on with their life I don't mind giving.
     
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  9. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    You might be right but considering the background of a group of investors who we know want to take over a football team spending three months, presumably, going over everything with a fine tooth comb, it seems a lot more likely that it was done with a view to future investment. I find it very improbable that it was simply a loan.
     
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  10. Sheep Farmer

    Sheep Farmer Well-Known Member

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    So Madrox have borrowed money to give to Safc and don't expect it to be repaid and FPP are happy that they have put money into a company that has done this - give over!
     
    #12370
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  11. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Which lad?
     
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  12. Wash. FTM

    Wash. FTM Member

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    We started a registered charity 22 years ago and it is still run by volunteers.
    We donated £500,000.00 to research two years ago and still help our families.
    Our overheads are minimal as the organisation is run from the homes of our committee and volunteer's.
    We don't pay wages to anyone
     
    #12372
  13. Guinness Guzzler

    Guinness Guzzler Well-Known Member

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    Well, madrox is just the owners. So yes, they've got a loan which they are happy to give to SAFC. I'm sure the intention is for it to be repaid in shares at a later date, but if it all goes wrong it will be the owners (via Madrox) having to repay it. FPP will be more than happy with this because if they can't pay it, the only asset Madrox has is the shares in SAFC, so they'd effectively get the club for next to nowt. It isn't a debt to the club, that's all I think Methven was saying.
     
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  14. Septem

    Septem New Member

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    So it isn't a debt to the club but club can be used to pay it off? Is that correct? Has the club been mortgaged for 9 million? I've never read much on this and got no clue about what I've read <laugh>
     
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  15. Guinness Guzzler

    Guinness Guzzler Well-Known Member

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    Aye it's not exactly easy to follow! But aye, it's not a Sunderland AFC debt. So let's say SAFC have £15m available, and Madrox can't pay the £9m back, in theory SAFC aren't liable for it because the loan wasn't theirs, so we don't need to worry about £9m coming out of SAFC to pay it back (if the owners did so it would create a debt owed by the owners to SAFC) so we're safe in that regard. Giving the money to Madrox, and then in turn gifting it to the club, means the club gets £9m that doesn't have to be repaid.

    If the owners (Madrox) couldn't pay it back, however, it would likely be secured against something. The only asset Madrox has is their shares in SAFC. So the only thing they could give FPP if they defaulted is the shares they have in SAFC, making FPP the owners. They couldn't give them money out of SAFC's bank, just the shares. That is assuming it's a secured loan. It might be unsecured, so FPP don't get anything if the owners default, but I imagine that to be very unlikely!
     
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  16. Septem

    Septem New Member

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    Hopefully all will be fine. Only slight concern for me is if FPP end up with club by default is what they would do with it.
     
    #12376
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  17. Guinness Guzzler

    Guinness Guzzler Well-Known Member

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    I think in reality they'd be able to pay it. Sartori is seemingly getting more involved now and he's got plenty, I imagine Donald also has plenty given that he had to show £50m to the EFL when buying us.

    Assuming it's a secured loan to Madrox I think it much more likely that the plan is to pay it back in shares after a set amount of time. Basically, from what was coming out when the takeover seemed to collapse, it appeared that FPP were anxious about the risk. They only really make money if we get to the PL but they're seeing the likes of Leeds struggle (similarly big crowds, but their tickets cost more so they'll have a big gate receipt advantage).

    This is a way of minimising the risk. Donald bought the club for £15m. He likely wouldn't want to sell it for that as it would mean all his work was for no profit, but FPP might think it's a fair value given the aforementioned risk. So they loan £9m to be repaid in, say, 3 years. This gives Donald and co a chance to maximise their profit. If they do rubbish and, even with this investment, we are still in league one, then £9m would likely give FPP 75%+ of the club, so they get it canny cheap which helps offset the money they'll have to spend to get to the PL.

    If Donald does as well as he thinks he can and we're an established Championship side by then, the club might be worth £50m. So the £9m only gets them under 20% of the club. That's a result for the current owners because they still own £40m odd of value that they bought for £15m. They can either sell the rest to FPP then and make a good profit, or sell some and retain the rest to hopefully make an even bigger profit if they can get us to the PL. For FPP it means the deal costs them more, but it comes with a lot less risk, they've got a Sunderland that likely won't need hundreds of millions to be back in the top flight where its value will rocket, so they avoid the risk.

    They could have bought £9m of shares now, but if they'd done so and the club didn't get promotion and was ran badly (they won't be able to be hands on so will have to trust others) their £9m would lose value as the overall value of the club falls. This way they definitely get £9m back, either in cash or possibly in an increased number of shares if our value has fallen, and it lets them see close up if they really want to be involved. If that's what they've done (and I'd think it likely since they aren't a bank so won't normally be in the business of loaning money just for a slight return), it is a very good bit of risk minimisation for them, and I'd think that the current owners have done very well for all concerned getting them to agree to it
     
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  18. Septem

    Septem New Member

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    Aye i think i got that ha. It's not anything I'm losing sleep over mind. Onwards and upwards. Hopefully good times ahead. I still fancy us to go up this year regardless.
     
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  19. BumbleBee

    BumbleBee Active Member

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    If it all goes tits up and we remain a L1 club next year?
     
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  20. Iansun

    Iansun Well-Known Member

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    Can't see us gaining promotion can you ?
     
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