Season update thread post Stoke

[Oldsparkey]

Is the squad minus Ramsey and O'Dowda just not good enough, or are poor management decisions having an effect?

Bit of both I'd say, though the enforced absence of Collins and Grant did force Bulut's hand, but did he get it right?

It's pretty obvious we lack an effective strike force, creative midfield and a dominant keeper - apart from that we're OK..........

Bulut sometimes worries me though. He obviously thinks he's doing the right thing but has a penchant for repeating a mistake in the belief that it'll be OK next time. Desperation substitutions aren't the answer either.

Switching Ng to the left didn't work at Middlesbro and didn't again yesterday. For one thing Perry isn't anywhere near as effective on the left though Tanner didn't exactly help matters, and secondly with all due respect to Romeo, it significantly weakens the right. As a result we end up with ineffective supply chains down the flanks and everything is driven through the middle where we don't possess the talent to exploit.

Meite, Ugbo and Etete are not good enough as sole target men - they can't hold up for others and get bullied off the ball. We need to get the ball wide as far up the pitch as possible and pull it back on the floor for willing runners like Robinson, Colwill and even Ralls to run onto.

At the moment, set pieces with the likes of Goutas and McGuinness are the only real aerial threats we possess and they're not expected to get up there in open play. Before anyone points out Ugbo's header at Preston, he was given freedom of the borough in the box to meet Wintle's cross - that won't happen very often.

All in all a game yesterday which laid bare our deficiencies in the squad, and dare I say it, the managment of it?

 

[Hilts24]

Even Pep makes mistakes.

Bulut has done a remarkable job.

We were the 3rd worst squad last season and we are above mid table. Anything around mid table will be an outstanding season.

Fact is lose a few key players and those coming in are not good enough.

The likes of Romeo Adams Rino Sawyers Cambell all need moving on and replaced with better options some of whom need to go straight into the starting 11 for a real play off push in the next couple of seasons.

As it is Bulut is overachieving in my opinion so while I agree hes made mistakes the positives of the season far outweigh the negatives.

Is the squad minus O Dowda and Ramsey good enough.? Yes for the realistic target of avoiding relegation , almost certainly for avoiding being dragged into a relegation. Mid table 10-14th maybe. Play offs - No.

 

[Hilts24]

As for O Dowda hes a long history of being injury prone. While the others ive mentioned id gladly release on frees. Id accept any decent offer for O Dowda and bring in a replacement.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Even Pep makes mistakes.

Bulut has done a remarkable job.

We were the 3rd worst squad last season and we are above mid table. Anything around mid table will be an outstanding season.

Fact is lose a few key players and those coming in are not good enough.

The likes of Romeo Adams Rino Sawyers Cambell all need moving on and replaced with better options some of whom need to go straight into the starting 11 for a real play off push in the next couple of seasons.

As it is Bulut is overachieving in my opinion so while I agree hes made mistakes the positives of the season far outweigh the negatives.

Is the squad minus O Dowda and Ramsey good enough.? Yes for the realistic target of avoiding relegation , almost certainly for avoiding being dragged into a relegation. Mid table 10-14th maybe. Play offs - No.

Agree with most of that other than your "realistic target of avoiding relegation" - is that all this club is about?

Bulut has indeed done a rmarkable job in the first 4 months of the season for which we should be grateful, but it's all about where we go from here.

 

[ninian opinion]

I’m viewing this season as part one of the Bulut management. This was to avoid relegation, finish comfortably in top half and set the stage for part two which will be a targeted promotion next season. (It may well happen this season if the team is significantly strengthened in January and we get more game time out of Ramsey)

Part two needs 6-7 better players. Take last night - how many city players would get into the WBA team? None.

The back 4 are on a par with most other teams. The keeper position is a problem. The midfield though needs so much more dynamism and creative ability. The forwards quite simply are not good enough.

Yes he’s made mistakes with selections and on field substitutions but that’s forgivable. He’s also made substitutions which have worked out - Tanner v swansea, Ugbo & Wintle at Preston and probably I’ve missed some.

The signings he’s brought in have largely improved the team but he’s been stung by injuries to Ramsey and O Dowda.

City have not been thrashed this season and have lost so many games by the odd goal but on balance our points tally and league position is just about right.

 

[Oldsparkey]

The back 4 are on a par with most other teams. The keeper position is a problem. The midfield though needs so much more dynamism and creative ability. The forwards quite simply are not good enough.

City have not been thrashed this season and have lost so many games by the odd goal but on balance our points tally and league position is just about right.

Spot on.

 

[Hilts24]

Agree with most of that other than your "realistic target of avoiding relegation" - is that all this club is about?

Bulut has indeed done a rmarkable job in the first 4 months of the season for which we should be grateful, but it's all about where we go from here.

We were 3rd bottom last season without points deductions.

We had a transfer embargo and still loads of crap Morisons signings.

Just my opinion but first realistic target was staying up.

We should be comfortably safe and id be using the window to sign young players who can help us over the next few seasons to really challenge.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Everybody's first realistic taget is staying up that's obvious.

Being above the crap currently propping up the table shouldn't be a benchmark for satisfaction and I don't think Tan would accept that as success.

As we are, I'm well satisfied although it might not appear that way on here.

 

[remote]

Everybody's first realistic taget is staying up that's obvious.

Being above the crap currently propping up the table shouldn't be a benchmark for satisfaction and I don't think Tan would accept that as success.

As we are, I'm well satisfied although it might not appear that way on here.

From the start I said 6-10th would be a decent season after the last couple seasons and our umbongo.

 

[ninian opinion]

“Might?” Definitely

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[Oldsparkey]

Regarding our opinions on our end of season finish. From where I'm standing, there're clearly 4 teams who are a class above and will dominate the top positions. They're the three relegated Prem clubs and for me West Brom. I've got a feeling Ipswich might slip away from that current auto spot despite their good performances since coming up but they'll still be there or thereabouts.

Then we come to the other 2 contenders for the top 6 spots. Right now and before any improvements by anyone in the January window, I don't see the likes of current challengers Preston, Hull, Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Watford any better than us. If anyone, Sunderland could be the biggest danger - they've got some classy youngsters like Clarke in their squad.

I see no reason why we can't compete for a lower top 6 place. Yes, it depends on a number of factors like how deep Tan's pockets are, whether Bulut can get the right blend of players and whether he can construct a winning side to provide consistency rather than lurching from the sublime to the pits in performance levels.

It's a big ask but it's one we should take on rather than setting the ambition levels at safety. That may have been the initial target at the outset but that's gone and we find ourselves realistically mid table finishers.

It's time to ramp up the expectation levels or we'll just see another season peter out basking in safety this season rather than going for it. We should accept the possible/probable dissappointment at missing out on the playoffs but at least the effort would set us up for next season should that happen.

 

[DaiJones]

Our next 5 games are all winnable, let's see where we are when the window opens.

 

[Hilts24]

We are miles away from being a promotion side.

Warnocks side would annhilate this team and were ultimately not good enough for the next level.

Its far from a wasted season if we improve to a mid table side.

The worst thing we do will be to throw money at a play off challenge.

We need young players with a sell on value who can help us over the next few seasons. If that by some miracle gets us top 6 so be it.

 

[Oldsparkey]

We are miles away from being a promotion side.

Warnocks side would annhilate this team and were ultimately not good enough for the next level.

Its far from a wasted season if we improve to a mid table side.

The worst thing we do will be to throw money at a play off challenge.

We need young players with a sell on value who can help us over the next few seasons. If that by some miracle gets us top 6 so be it.

You're missing my points completely.

Forget promotion for a minute, we are not miles away from being a top 6 side.

I also never said it would be a wasted season if we improve to mid table, just that given our current position, we should push on.

Not suggesting we should throw money at anything, just a sensible approach to improving the side towards that.

I don't object to buying young players with a sell on value if that's all you want to do.

 

[BrizzleBluebird]

Regarding our opinions on our end of season finish. From where I'm standing, there're clearly 4 teams who are a class above and will dominate the top positions. They're the three relegated Prem clubs and for me West Brom. I've got a feeling Ipswich might slip away from that current auto spot despite their good performances since coming up but they'll still be there or thereabouts.

Then we come to the other 2 contenders for the top 6 spots. Right now and before any improvements by anyone in the January window, I don't see the likes of current challengers Preston, Hull, Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Watford any better than us. If anyone, Sunderland could be the biggest danger - they've got some classy youngsters like Clarke in their squad.

I see no reason why we can't compete for a lower top 6 place. Yes, it depends on a number of factors like how deep Tan's pockets are, whether Bulut can get the right blend of players and whether he can construct a winning side to provide consistency rather than lurching from the sublime to the pits in performance levels.

It's a big ask but it's one we should take on rather than setting the ambition levels at safety. That may have been the initial target at the outset but that's gone and we find ourselves realistically mid table finishers.

It's time to ramp up the expectation levels or we'll just see another season peter out basking in safety this season rather than going for it. We should accept the possible/probable dissappointment at missing out on the playoffs but at least the effort would set us up for next season should that happen.

Personally I wouldn't discount Boro as being able to grab a playoff spot again, I think they've got more to offer still....

In saying that, with a half decent run of results over our next 4 or 5 then there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't gatecrash the party... If Rambo and O'Dowda can get fit (and stay fit) together with 4 or 5 newbies in the squad to improve it.....

Definitely potential for us to have increased hopes though (I wouldn't want to say expectations... I never like football fans expecting wins/success, always feels arrogant and dismissive of your challengers) IF things pan out well between now and the end of January...

 

[ninian opinion]

Personally I wouldn't discount Boro as being able to grab a playoff spot again, I think they've got more to offer still....

In saying that, with a half decent run of results over our next 4 or 5 then there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't gatecrash the party... If Rambo and O'Dowda can get fit (and stay fit) together with 4 or 5 newbies in the squad to improve it.....

Definitely potential for us to have increased hopes though (I wouldn't want to say expectations... I never like football fans expecting wins/success, always feels arrogant and dismissive of your challengers) IF things pan out well between now and the end of January...

I echo the optimism but you’re right it’s a big IF that we’re still there on thereabouts come out trip to QPR……but watching us get totally outplayed in the last 2 games, albeit against a strong WBA outfit and a massively superior Soton emphasised the huge gulf between us and the likes of them.

But I should add that from us being relegation fodder last season to comfortable top ten with the transfer embargo is a testament to the good work of Bulut and his squad - even more so without the talismanic Ramsey for most of it.

 

[Oldsparkey]

I echo the optimism but you’re right it’s a big IF that we’re still there on thereabouts come out trip to QPR……but watching us get totally outplayed in the last 2 games, albeit against a strong WBA outfit and a massively superior Soton emphasised the huge gulf between us and the likes of them.

But I should add that from us being relegation fodder last season to comfortable top ten with the transfer embargo is a testament to the good work of Bulut and his squad - even more so without the talismanic Ramsey for most of it.

We got seriously outplayed in footballing terms by both Brom and Soton - two of the four I said I saw as disputing the auto spots - we're nowhere near them.

As for the rest, there's nothing in it. If we aspire to join the "top 6 party" come May, it's wide open for a dozen clubs including us.

On the other hand if we're content to see the season out and consolidate in mid table then some may see that approach as longer term sensibility. I'm afraid that's not me and something I've rarely been capable of through life. It's worked brilliantly on times and cost me on others, but what the hell, tomorrow might never come.

Just on a point made by Hilts regarding "Warnock's side would anihilate this team" - I suppose Madine and Josh Murphy would have both got hat tricks....

 

[remote]

On the other hand if we're content to see the season out and consolidate in mid table then some may see that approach as longer term sensibility. I'm afraid that's not me and something I've rarely been capable of through life. It's worked brilliantly on times and cost me on others, but what the hell, tomorrow might never come.

I don't think consolidation should be about standing still.
I am happy to build for next season, and if in doing that we end up in the playoffs, great.

If we're going to sign players in January, they need to be permies, so we can build.
More loanees would just put us in a hole next season, whichever league we're in.

I know Erol wants 5 players and I know he has aspirations.
I'm still not 100% convinced by him. Like his charges, he still has some development needs.

We need to aim as high as we can, but in a controlled way.
In the last 10 years, there have been too many cycles of boom or bust.
1 season in the Premier League, 3-5 years of sorting the mess out when we come back down.
I don't want to go there again.

Whatever we do in January needs to be sustainable.

Stuck record time, we need a DoF.

 

[Oldsparkey]

I don't think consolidation should be about standing still.
I am happy to build for next season, and if in doing that we end up in the playoffs, great.

I know Erol wants 5 players and I know he has aspirations.
I'm still not 100% convinced by him. Like his charges, he still has some development needs.

We need to aim as high as we can, but in a controlled way.

I agree that Bulut sometimes doesn't help his cause with dubious positional selections/substitutions and we've had that recently. To be fair, this only comes to the surface with supporters when we lose, whereas winning games seems to have an anesthetic effect.

Having said that, it's fair to say it's down to Bulut to extract the best from this current squad options to help him justify any substantial financial support from Tan in January for additions. He'll probaly have to get 3 or 4 off the books anyway and most on here seem to singing from the same hymnsheet as to who they should be.

Having now got WBA and Southampton behind us for the moment, these next 6 games to the New Year are a big opportunity. Of those games, 4 are at home and only 2 away. Even those 2 away games at Hull and Sheff Wed are hardly daunting prospects and if we are going to trouble the playoff contenders, we need a return from them.

A possible 18 points up for grabs. Anything from the Leicester game would be a huge bonus, but at least we're at home this time and we were unlucky up there not to take a point early in the season.

Just out of interest, I'll go for 12 points from the 18 to keep us in playoff contention with the Jan window opening - anyone else going to have a stab?

 

[ninian opinion]

I agree that Bulut sometimes doesn't help his cause with dubious positional selections/substitutions and we've had that recently. To be fair, this only comes to the surface with supporters when we lose, whereas winning games seems to have an anesthetic effect.

Having said that, it's fair to say it's down to Bulut to extract the best from this current squad options to help him justify any substantial financial support from Tan in January for additions. He'll probaly have to get 3 or 4 off the books anyway and most on here seem to singing from the same hymnsheet as to who they should be.

Having now got WBA and Southampton behind us for the moment, these next 6 games to the New Year are a big opportunity. Of those games, 4 are at home and only 2 away. Even those 2 away games at Hull and Sheff Wed are hardly daunting prospects and if we are going to trouble the playoff contenders, we need a return from them.

A possible 18 points up for grabs. Anything from the Leicester game would be a huge bonus, but at least we're at home this time and we were unlucky up there not to take a point early in the season.

Just out of interest, I'll go for 12 points from the 18 to keep us in playoff contention with the Jan window opening - anyone else going to have a stab?

It’s vital we recapture our early season home form and put away teams below us in the league. Next few weeks will define what’ll happen in January