Scottish Independence

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The many Scots I have known in my lifetime, as work colleagues or simply as friends, would not bottle-out about anything. Not one of them. As for the disgusting stuff scrawled on the walls of some polling stations, "Vote 'Yes' or else", well that is just laughable. These cowardly morons would have got the balls sign in short order from the guys I knew, many of whom I still chat with to this day.
 
PNkt said:
My grandfather was Scottish through and through, we had a rebellious ancestor killed at the Battle of Flodden ;)
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Yeah, me too, PNkt, on the distaff side (God, I know my hoss lingo). Never knew him, but apparently a smart engineer who loved Scotland's favourite export far too much, apparently.
 
SwanHills said:
The many Scots I have known in my lifetime, as work colleagues or simply as friends, would not bottle-out about anything. Not one of them. As for the disgusting stuff scrawled on the walls of some polling stations, "Vote 'Yes' or else", well that is just laughable. These cowardly morons would have got the balls sign in short order from the guys I knew, many of whom I still chat with to this day.
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kids, probably not even old enough to vote

what about the swastikas on yes shops?

six and half a dozen

what wasnt quite as equal was the one sided propaganda from news channels and newspapers
 
I just wish we had a smart politician rather than Darling who could have wiped the floor with Odious Alex and stopped it befor eit took off. It is unacceptable that anyone pointing out a fact is labelled a bully or scaremonger or anyone recognising the union is built on good stuff a bottler.

Alex all along complained that to deny a currency union was threats and bullying. It was actually common sense and his idea that sterling was an asset was also odd. Sterling is a measuring device, it is a way of measuring worth and value of assets but in itself it is only a system and has no value in itself. He was asking us to underwrite his assets and debt from our national bank.

Next he could have complained we were taking away his centimetres as well.
 
The Scots have had their say with their minority 5.7million can England have their say now? I would tell them to **** right off rather than give them more powers and how they spend "their" taxes! Who paid for this farcical referendum and who will pay again and again to support this nation? Yep, the British taxpayer!
 
this is the no voters broke down

scared 24%

content 30%

love the union 1%

scotland would have become better off per head than UK overnight, but this was lost in the midst of project fear which won in the end once they rolled out the billionaires to release statements in the last week and promising more power which im sure they wont deliver

avalanche of facts I think they were calling it, more like a barrage of bullshit

scotland were more than capable of not only surviving but prospering with such a disproportionate percentage of natural resources in our favour

currency was a non issue designed to distract and cast unnecessary doubt, if we voted yes it would have been in the best interest of the uk to sort out a currency union immediately

despite darling losing badly in the campaign, he had the back up to still take the glory

end of the day we bottled it, at least glasgow didnt fall for it
 
stick said:
Next time you want a referendum Boris you lot can pay for it if you are so cash rich!
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why do you think your top eton boys came running up the road? union? oil? i know what I think is more likely

im not saying scotland would have become some super rich paradise, but I think the actual risk/reward was skewed severely by the propaganda machine and that swayed the undecided

people also forgetting that we were not actually voting for salmond, he would have had temporary power but nothing guaranteed long term
 
DAN, do a bit of research mate and see what is free up there that isnt down here! 60 million in the Union funding a vote for 5.7 million Scots! And bribing the electorate with more concessions in future.
no idea what the oil is worth Boris but probably a fair bit shy of the finance sector in the City!
 
its worth at least a trillion what is left, and it is rightfully ours, billions and billions of barrels

and we could have a lot more in the west that can only be drilled if we get the nuclear weapons out which we would have had yes won, of course not many heard about this via the bbc and 99% of papers, none I wouldnt have thought

the uk needs us more than we need it, I think we all saw the panic
 
Boris Fenster said:
its worth at least a trillion what is left, and it is rightfully ours, billions and billions of barrels............
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Boris, stick to what you know, billions and billions of barrels? Whoever told you that is a very optimistic reservoir engineer, because, as we know, much of the estimated reserves are off the Shetland Islands. These 25,000 Shetlanders are not Scottish, so I'm told, is this correct?
 
A report by Sir Ian Wood in 2012 said there was between 12-24 billion barrels of oil left

is that not billions and billions?

they have been saying that north sea oil will run out in 15 years since the 80s, I wont be surprised if they are saying the same thing in a hundred years
 
Boris Fenster said:
A report by Sir Ian Wood in 2012 said there was between 12-24 billion barrels of oil left

is that not billions and billions?

they have been saying that north sea oil will run out in 15 years since the 80s, I wont be surprised if they are saying the same thing in a hundred years
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That is correct, Boris, I expressed myself poorly and incorrectly. My apologies. Current estimated hydrocarbon reserves in the UK North Sea stand at about 11 billion barrels. My question, however, remains as to the blocks around the Shetland Islands? I do not know what the breakdown is of the estimated reserves of the Scottish and Shetland areas? Could this have been a problem had the 'Yes' vote succeeded?
 
That is actually news to me Swan, seems the Yes campaign kept that quiet if thats the case but if its true why wasnt the No campaign using that to their advantage? Sounds like something they would be pushing as hard as currency.

I know there was game playing and plain lying on both sides, thats why I take no part in politics, its a sham to me. Im not anti UK or anything but I felt like it was a great chance for Scotland to do something big, there would have been some risks but there is always risks, even staying in the UK there will be risks for everyone.

Whats done is done now so no point dwelling on it, it was never really in doubt and maybe each UK country will get more power over the own affairs from it, I wont be holding my breath tho.
 
Some really admirable debate on this thread. I would just throw in the following thought: In the capitalist society in which we live, none of us will ever be masters of our own destiny. Those with the money and power will always do what's best for them and the bloke in the street will always be shackled to the system, trying to make his way. Whether it be Great Britain, Scotland, England, Germany, France, Belgium or wherever. The working man is kept repressed by the minority who have the power and money.
 
There was a lot said by both sides that were open to question, on reflection, but one thing is for certain. The basic promise to Scottish people made by both Gordon Brown and David Cameron had better be honoured. There is no time to lose in implementing this promise, they had better get cracking, but quick. Quite honestly, I do not think Westminster will be able to act with the necessary speed, trouble lies ahead methinks? England and Wales will be asking for a lot more self-government too, quite rightly. I have no idea whether or not Northern Ireland is happy with its lot, have to ask Beeforsalmon there! Down where I live in retirement, Bavaria would just love to be independent, I feel sure, but it would be over the rest of Germany's dead body IMO. So the Bavarians just carry on. Bierfest starts tomorrow, so life ain't so bad! :smiley:
 
I'm no politician, thank goodness, but I just wonder why this was tackled the way it was (eg too many people worried about delving into the unknown, probably also too many people thinking it would be great without having a clue of the implications). Independence is either something mutually agreed or forced one way or another. A financial case agreed between Scotland and UK could have been put forward spelling out the pros and cons. It has to be financially viable and I suspect most people, myself included, haven't a clue on that aspect. Would it not have been better to phase it with a point defined at which a final decision has to be made. Excuse my ignorance but I would guess independence means self funding and self rule. Therefore any external funding could be gradually reduced until the residents start to feel the effects (good and/or bad) so that, at the defined point, any predictions about the implications would be more believable by all. During this time a virtual currency exchange rate could be determined.

Basically a test run to prove the viability. If it proves that independence is viable then a date is agreed to pull the plug completely on any funding and to introduce the new currency. At that date the 2 countries are totally independent of each other. This presumably could mean that individuals and companies etc with investments in each country could win or lose out so (again) presumably they would be seeking to get out of or get further into those investments, as appropriate. But at least these would be implications beginning to happen in a test period before the point of no return was reached.

Probably talking out of my backside. This is just me looking at it as an out and out layman on these matters.
 
I agree Oddy. A very interesting, rational and educational thread. And as you can see I am far from educated in politics and economics <laugh>.
 
Boris Fenster said:
scotland would have become better off per head than UK overnight, but this was lost in the midst of project fear which won in the end once they rolled out the billionaires to release statements in the last week and promising more power which im sure they wont deliver

avalanche of facts I think they were calling it, more like a barrage of bulls**t

scotland were more than capable of not only surviving but prospering with such a disproportionate percentage of natural resources in our favour

currency was a non issue designed to distract and cast unnecessary doubt, if we voted yes it would have been in the best interest of the uk to sort out a currency union immediately
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Since the vote is done and dusted, it is probably pointless continuing the debate, but...

It would not be difficult for Scotland to become &#8220;better of per head&#8221; because such a large proportion of the population are dependent upon the Welfare State. Mr Salmond was going to spend the oil wealth in propping up this Utopia until the oil ran out.

He was happy to ignore Scotland&#8217;s demographic timebomb. After getting their free education in Scotland, a large proportion of Scotland&#8217;s talent heads South of the Border or overseas. Mr Salmond would have had nobody to tax to pay for free everything as the Irish showed when they undercut the Corporation Tax of their fellow EU members (much to their chagrin) in order to attract globalised corporates.

I can guarantee you that there would have been no currency union. Scotland would have been using their own currency until such a time as they could gain membership of the failing EU Super State and start using the Euro. If they had chosen to use the RUK Pound Sterling, they would have been trading in it just like tourists and they would have no lender of last resort to underpin them. I have no doubt that we would have been playing hard ball with an independent Scotland because we would have to broker whatever deal we could that was in the best interests of RUK.

I expect that the Scots will now be holding Cameron, Clegg and Miliband to the promises that they made in the last ten days; and I think that we in the RUK will be wanting a piece of that action.
 
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