grumpy - unless we have some new evidence or can bring new witnesses to back up our case then do you honestly think the outcome is going to be any different? I know your comment wasn't actually directed at me, but as I seem to be the only one who has posted saying we should try and put this behind us as quickly as possible I'm wearing that cap. But I didn't say give up without a fight, and would not support that. Of course we should present whatever evidence is available to mitigate any damage, and if there were administrative errors then those should be acknowledged and pointed out. But I think it would be fruitless to try to refute the charge. There has been a tribunal and an appeal. The FA's lawyers will have studied those cases in detail and I think any attempt to get the charges completely dismissed would be a completely and utterly futile waste of resources. It's just a matter of damage limitation.
To throw my opinion in the ring it seems McCammon WAS treated differently to other members of the squad and probably treated unfairly but this was probably down to having a shocking attitude and nothing to do with the colour of his skin. If for example John Nutter had done the same things and been subjected to the same treatment he would have just been released at the end of the contract and we all move on. However due to McCammon claiming this to be a racist incident we technically cannot prove that it had nothing to do with his ethnicity and with all the racism stories flying around it is easier for all parties (apart from us I must say) to blame racist little Gillingham and hammer us. Really sad day, we are not a racist club and whatever the FA claim I know we are not and McCammon, being the nasty piece of work he is, just wants one last pay day because lets face it he needs one after having literally no career to speak of after us. Lets hope we can try and move past this but its a very sad day for Gillingham football club.
I think Luke is right, the club clearly tried to force the player out of the club, but because he was poor not the colour of his skin, but when you play with fire you run the risk of being burnt. The club needs to put up and shut up on this matter before the club reputation is tarnished any more
i expect 3 points deduction plus 10 points on suspension if we commit any other offences for 2 seasons. don t agree with fa but Gills will have to live with it unfortunately.
Do we know how quickly the FA will act now we have been charged? We are already in a relegation fight this season and say we get something like 10 points deducted we assume that this season is done for us. But what happens if nothing happens until the end of the season we get relegated just on our performance and not because of points deduction and the FA decide the deduction starts next season when we are in League Two, this could hit us harder than we think!!!
Leedsgill makes a very good point. Let us hope the decision makers use their brains rather than their egos when making any decisions from now on.
Just listening to BBC News tonight the Chairman has said he will fight the case. I will try and find a link. ps. Cannot find a link at the moment but basically it was along the lines of he is going to clear his and the clubs name, I think he used the word exonerated. And made reference that everyone at that tribunal will have to attend the hearing. Not sure what to say other than good luck.
Clearly Mr. Scally thinks he can win this case and wants to follow it though to the bitter end. To be honest I'm glad he is we don't deserve the tag of a 'racist club' and if we can get it removed then that's good news!
I fear the worst! At the original employment tribunal the Club were guilty of mis administration - that is accepted. Somehow we were found guilty of the racially motivated dismissal of McCammon - when I have yet to be shown independent corroboration. The Club may well have treated McCammon 'unfairly' (no they didn't) - but in the absence of any evidence - other than the one by McCAMMON, how can the tribunal find it to be on the grounds of racism when the evidence available can only make it no more than 50-50 ( not enough to convict in a court of law ) We then go on to lose an appeal -presumably on the lines that the appeal 'court' believe McCammon despite his lack of corroborating evidence enough to tip the balance in favour of McCammon. This decision stinks and certainly is NOT in keeping with the great British justice for which we are famous. I doubt the FA will have any different viewpoint from the employment tribunal - especially as it will be busting its' guts to grasp an opportunity to hammer somebody on the subject of racism. I also fear that more excreta will be thrown in our direction - will the FA drag up the 'racist' nonsense during our game against Crawley a couple of years ago ? and will the FA drag up the 'racist' nonsense that Steve Evans had to endure ? - to 'prove' that we are a racist club? I'm sorry to depress you all even further so early in the week - but I doubt that the FA will exonerate Scally and the Club. I am still fuming at the multi tiered system of judicial review - why can't it be one system - where you are innocent until proven otherwise - beyond reasonable doubt - with corroborated evidence to uphold a guilty decision - not just the say so of a footballer - who in my opinion has given the least to GFC than any other player in its' history.
He lost at the tribunal. He lost the appeal. He is now going to try and fight the FA, what does he think will happen? What new evidence does he have? Just take the hit and move on. People keep having a pop at McCammon but he WON the case. That is the end of the matter, trying to blame the tribunal system is achieving the sum total of nothing. The facts are the facts, we lost, twice and now Scally wants to fight the FA who will be desperate to make a big public stand against racism.
Does anyone believe that Gillingham are a racist club? If your answer is no then why should we accept anything without a fight, the FA are such a joke organisation suppose they want to make an example of us and throw us out of the league, should we accept that without a fight. This is something that happened in 2011 and the FA have had plenty of time to lay charges against us, I smell a rat and suspect the FA have some other reason for bringing this up now.
Grumpy....I am with you here. The principles of law for criminal law are 'beyond all reasonable doubt' and for civil law 'on the balance of probabilities'. This case has been tried under the umbrella of civil law. In either case, the weight of evidence is the overriding factor......has Mr Scally now got more people to speak on his behalf who did not appear on the first occasion???/ I do not know, but to accept the tag of being a racist club.....which would stick forever, without a fight (when the outcome of being found guilty or accepting the verdict would be little different) would be very short sighted indeed. This has long term implications and the right of appeal must be considered. I am sure that Mr Scally et al have a better insight into the possible outcomes than we do.
Scally has to take this all the way, the FA are accusing Gillingham football club of racial victimisation and we have to clear that tag, it's nothing short of a disgrace! I'd take a points deduction, a fine whatever, this is morally wrong and the principle of taking this to the end means a lot more as far as I'm concerned, I back the chairman 100% on this!
Scally will lose though, why bother trying to fight an organisation as clearly questionable as the FA? If a court (and you can tear the court apart all you like but it is at least impartial) found against him not just once but also on appeal then why on earth would the FA find any different. They don't even need to carry out an investigation, they can simply say that the court result has proved etc etc. I don't want us down the swanny and being known as a racist club when we clearly are no such bloody thing but Scally trying to fight this will only result in a harsher penalty. Again, what is going to happen to Hess? He was named specifically in the case and if the FA find us guilty he needs to walk surely to god?
Fans need to see sense (because Scally seems incapable of doing so). The facts are history and known to all. The employment tribunal found in favour of McCammon in terms of an unfair dismissal and unfair racial discrimination. The appeals tribunal reconfirmed the original decision. there is no more appealing to be done and the FA cannot find that an employment tribunal got it wrong they just have to determine the appropriate punishment. Emotive nonsense about whether or not the club is racist is just a red herring. Anyone with the slightest intelligence could have seen what was going to happen and would have done a deal outside the Tribunal before the hearing started. An employment contract has to be respected just as much for a useless player as for a star performer and every bit of information that has leaked out has suggested that the club behaved outrageously and that basic employment procedures were lacking. So, enough of this nonsense about fighting for the good name of the club it is far too late for that. The need now is for good professional advice to minimise damage and to avoid the nightmare scenario of starting next season with a 10 point deduction in League2 with the probability of non league football for 2016/17. As a start I suggest a change of tone, eat humble pie, show contrition, express apologies and above all, get Scally to swallow his ego. He has done enough harm.
and there is the problem "WE WERE NOT" found guilty of racial discrimination! that charge was dismissed. the only racial element was the failure to carry out a proper investigation of the claim of racial discrimination, the term used for this was racial victimisation which is misleading as they seemed to except that our handling of McCammon was not influenced by his race.
I have to agree with grumpygit i have seen nothing that indicates the club were in anyway guilty of racial discrimination. It all appears to have been very misleading in terms used by the tribunal in general. My understanding is it was more just an administration error in terms, maybe for failing to follow up an accusation in the minefield of employment law. That does not make us racist and i feel the Chairman is right to fight any such allegation/accusation.
Bristol hits the nail on the head firmly. What if we go down then get smacked with a -10 start to next season. We could be non-league all because Scally won't swallow his punishment.
If brb and Grumpy are correct that the tribunal found no evidence of discrimination (I hope this is the case even though it is not being reported that way) then the whole thing becomes even more curious. There is no need for any "fighting" but there is a big need for some "explaining". We need a succession of press releases, media interviews and general PR activity conveying the message that there was no racial discrimination but the club made a mess of a dismissal for which it is very sorry and we wish Mr McCammon well for the future. END OF STORY. END OF FA ENQUIRY. Is there a shortfall of common sense and goodwill here? Or is it a lot worse than Grumpy and brb think? I do not know but it really does need a sensible explanation in layman terms and I have a suspicion that egos are involved.
