That looked a true run race..time will tell whether it was a I think Gosden was schooled by MVO'B before Murless so I'm sticking with the original which has been attributed to the great man by more than Gosdo although it's fair to say a lot of these mantras and their origins frequently get confused by the passage of time. Much too pithy a remark for Murless in any case.
Amidst all the negativity around the Derby I thought it worth saying congratulations to Padraig Beggy. I'd never heard of him before the race to be honest. After serving his apprenticeship with Kevin Prendergast he moved to John Quinn for a lean spell before heading off to Australia to seek his fortune. But he fell foul of the New South Wales stewards and incurred a lengthy ban after testing positive for a banned substance. On returning to Ireland a couple of mates who were working at Ballydoyle got him a job there and the rest, as they say, is history. Well done AOB for taking a chance on Beggy and giving him the opportunity in the big race. A shame he will lose the ride to Ryan Moore next time the horse runs but that's racing.
He'd only ridden three winners since 2015 and had 99 rides since 2012 but clearly is a gifted horseman. He probably will lose the ride Oddy but I dont think he's bothered now with yesterday on his CV! Interesting to see how many outside rides he gets now. Off on Hols in 5 mins...GL all.
What a great days racing/sport yesterday was! Emenem just losing, Spencer giving me a winner (hard pushed in a 3 horse race) then beating my treble then onto the footy: Ronaldo giving me a 1st goal, juve equalizing to open up my 3-1 correct score then that we sub making it 4-1 I love the oh so nearly winning bets
I'm not at my shining best, Swan - the lock-in lasted a VERY long time - but is/was St. Jude not the patron saint of lost causes ? The case rests.
Has everyone thrown all of the toys out of the pram yet? If you were an alien visiting from Mars and your view of the race were not coloured by the betting, would you not have thought that it was an exciting spectacle that resulted in a close finish? So the winner was 40/1, therefore it must be a fluke result and the horse is a donkey. Wings Of Eagles was having his sixth race and had been second to Venice Beach in the Chester Vase with The Anvil a nose back in third, where the winner had made virtually all and the runner up had been held up in the rear and had finished strongly. That sounds familiar. The time for the 2017 Epsom Derby was on a par with several recent runnings but I expect that when Timeform publish their Sectional Debrief on this race it will be very telling. Ballydoyle had two known front runners in the race – Venice Beach and Douglas Macarthur. As it was Douglas Macarthur went off like a scolded cat and The Anvil tried to go with him. The rest correctly chose to ignore them as they blew their winning chances racing too fast in the uphill first half mile, so in reality Venice Beach was leading the race – perhaps a little too fast for his own good. I think the sectional times for this race will be very telling. Those like Best Solution, Permian and Venice Beach that were up near the pace all finished out with the washing, with the exception of Cracksman who was in the first half dozen the whole race. At Tattenham Corner, the winner, Cliffs Of Moher and Eminent were all in the last half dozen (not sure how that makes any of them “a near non trier”). The runner up threw down his challenge first and got to the front (passing Eminent then Cracksman), only to be collared by Wings Of Eagles in the last ten yards. The fact that Wings Of Eagles hung across the camber towards the rail suggests that he did not handle the course perfectly just like a couple of the vanquished. The race at The Curragh will undoubtedly be run differently and the different course may see some in a better light but I cannot see any immediate reason why Cracksman or Eminent should reverse their Epsom placings with either of the Ballydoyle colts and I am surprised that everyone is up for a rematch and neither of the Frankel colts is going to the Eclipse. Eminent and Cliffs Of Moher started from roughly the same place in the race and Ryan Moore’s mount went past Jim Crowley’s with no excuses for Frankel’s son. It is foolish at this stage to say that Wings Of Eagles will not win another race. It started as “this season” and then became “his career” – does that include the 2020 Champion Hurdle for SaveTheHumans? Clearly your judgement is coloured by the starting prices rather than an objective assessment of the race.
A friend of mine did a silly football bet just for an interest in the game whilst watching in the pub. He was quite happy when Real Madrid netted the fourth goal to make it 4-1 as he had 25p on that score at 66/1 – thus collecting £16.50 in beer money for the total of £5 that he had staked on various scores. It was better than the £7.50 he would have won for just sticking in on Madrid at 6/4. He should have done Ronaldo to score first and be Man of the Match as that was on offer at 10/1...
That Chester form, eh? I had Venice Beach and Wings of Eagles based on what we had seen at the Chester Vase, smashing!
1) No matter, Rainer, I did know he was the patron saint of lost causes. However, I do like this from St. Wikipedia, which is so apt atm for the FC St. Jude, based at The Bush. Hmm, miracles do happen and maybe one will occur next season, but it does not look like it. Who's going to manage the Palace, has it already been done? "Why is St Jude the saint of lost causes? A common Roman Catholic prayer to St Jude is: O most holy apostle, Saint Jude, faithful servant and friend of Jesus, the Church honoureth and invoketh thee universally, as the patron of hopeless cases, and of things almost despaired of." My client asks that the case against him be adjourned sine die, on the grounds of insanity. 2) Great call by Ekbalco wasn't it. His fine piece of race-watching at Chester really paid off.
The price of the winner has never crossed my mind at any stage, I back plenty of 40/1 shots. The fact is, he was held up out of the race and the pace collapsed, he wont get another set up like that again this season. He was ridden with zero pressure and zero expectation and the race fell apart in front of him. Not saying hes a bad horse, obviously hes a decent horse with a top class pedigree like every horse in that stable, but the prior evidence of him, the unusual circumstances of the race which led to him winning, the impression that it was an average Derby, and the only races he can go for now make it unlikely for him to win again imo. And im making him 2/1 to win again, not 20/1. Would you take the 2/1?
i've been on my bike the last three days and took your advise ekbalco 99 , did wings of eagles e/w and cracksman to win , just got home to find a healthy balance in my account , many thanks for your well reasoned tip , only got the bet on while stopped in a cafe with wi fi , rest of the time up here in the mountains there is very poor internet , nice surprise to come home to , cheers my good man ,
From a bookmaking point of view, 2/1 was/is ridiculous about the horse ever winning again. He may not win the Irish Derby but there are plenty of races that he can win. We have to wait for the Irish Derby to see if he can complete the double. Pedigree does not win races or there would be no bookmakers. Please feel free to argue that point... Desert Orchid would have been champion sprinter.
Id say the Irish Derby is his only chance of winning another race, and the vast majority of Derby winner do not race beyond 3, after Ruler Of The Worlds poor 4yo campaign they might not try it again? So im assuming he only has the rest of this season. Not sure why you are bringing pedigrees into the discussion, I never said anything about pedigrees winning races, only said he has a top class pedigree like every horse in Ballydoyle. But I will argue that in classic races, pedigrees do win races, or they wouldnt spend billions on them worldwide. It doesnt guarantee anything but I can guarantee that if you buy a horse by Kyllachy, Exceed And Excel or Acclamation for example you are not going to win the Derby.
So what does everyone think about the Derby now? WOE 2/1 vouchers all over the floor Cliffs Of Moher career in tatters Cracksman second fav for the Arc
At the time I thought the Derby was pretty poor. Since then I had second thoughts about the winner and thought he might have proved to be a good Derby winner. Unfortunately got injured. Cliffs of Moher never seems to get a clear run yet never gets beaten far so not sure if he's unlucky or just doesn't like going past horses. It's happened too many times to be a jockey error. Cracksman, on the other hand, is still developing and it wouldn't surprise me if he took some G1s next year. He seems a nice horse
