Sahin's not the place though. Having Lucas back starts to give you a better spine, but realistically, and shoot me down if I'm wrong here, you need a RB, back up CB (what happened to Coates??), you need a midfielder who runs on, absolutely a left sided winger (don't need to be left footed, someone with pace), and probs another striker. Maybe if Rodgers uses Sturridge left side he can make a big impact, he has ability, no question. I'd say Nani would be an awesome signing for you, but is that ridiculous? It's not that you need a load of players, more that you need 3 probably 3 real top end players, that's gonna have to be gradual.
@monsmush I agree mate. I also think the place to start with is not Sahin. I'm not keen on loan deals, and he hasn't done enough to merrit being purchased - the fact he hasn't played more is testimony to what he has (or hasn't) been dong in training. I agree to the point on Lucas and I am hoping Coates will come good - but again there must be sometihng not quite right for Carra to be getting in before him. He does appear quite flappable - but that can be ironed out with more game and confidence. He's not crap otherwise he wouldn't be playing for his country. Not sure we need a right back. Johnson is playing well and we have Wisdom coming through the ranks. I agree we need an all singing and all dancing midfielder to replace Gerrard - and also a realy good Left wing. Most of us think Assaidi can do a job for us - but i'd prefer him as back up for someone else. Could do with another striker to back up Suarez and Sturridge - Borini might come good, but i'm not holding my breath. Trouble is we can't afford them.
We actually play with two deep mids and one one advanced midfielder. I don't understand how Sahin isn't given a chance in one of the 2 deep positions, if not alteast a subs role. Not even making it to the squad is a bloody shame really and i'm starting seriously have doubts on how BR rates talent. He should be given the nod at least ahead of Shelvey.
Certainly don't need a new RB - Johnson has been brilliant this year at RB & LB and the back 5 of Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger & Enrique have been pretty solid for us. Possibly a new CB if BR doesn't fancy Coates - he looked decent enough when he played but not sure he is good enough with the ball at his feet. A new CM to take over from Gerrard is a must, but can probably wait for the summer (hopefully Henderson can push on or Shelvey though) and possibly another wide man although we have Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling/Suso and possible Enrique who can all play there. Nani would be a no for me, much too expensive and has as many bad games as he does good. Plus ex United wouldn't go down well.
Mon I forgot to answer your point on Nani. I would like him here provided he was on low wages. He can be brilliant and it would certainly improve our squad. However he isn't cheap and United wouldn't let him go. Plus he's an arse
Borini looked awful when I saw him for Roma mind, I was gobsmacked at that signing if I'm honest, but he's young, and he has Italy caps, so there must be something there! Replacing Gerrard is impossible, so having Lucas sit deep, and looking for an offensive AM is probably the best bet, maybe someone like Diego from Wolfsburg, who has the talent to be one of the worlds best, he needs the right club, could that work. I was amazed when we signed AJ, I assumed he'd go to 'Pool, and we'd move for Downing (I actually think we WILL move for Downing this January), other options are to piss Swansea off even more and go for Dyer or Routledge, may not be flashy names, but they are a menace, quick, skilful, direct. Sturridge - Suarez Nani Diego Sterling Lucas. That's pretty menacing looking, and achievable for a club with Liverpool's pull, even if Nani is unrealistic due to the United connection, just shows that 2 signings can easily make you strong again. I'm not a massive fan of Johnson, despite his excellence going forward, but the rest of the defence , fit and on form, is very, very good.
I think this discussion has more to do with who actually rates/trusts BR and who doesn't. Other players have been played out of position, under other managers, at different clubs. Those that shut up & work even harder succeed. Do I have to name the likes of Gerrard or Lucas? Those that shrug their shoulders and blame where they're playing don't usually go on to succeed elsewhere either. (Eeeek, Sturridge lol although he denies ever saying it!) I'll repeat. Rogers sees him every day in training. Rogers has clearly stated that "his favourite" as some put it (telling description in itself)needed a rest, BR doesn't appear to be a stupid man so if this player is playing as good as some claim he played elsewhere in training, are you seriously suggesting BR is THAT stubborn or incompetent to ignore it? Why? How does it serve BR to take flack for not playing "the wonderboy" and keep playing the under par player? No logic there. I think Billy put it most succinctly earlier. He didn't want to be here, still doesn't, it shows day to day and why in hell would BR risk the morale of other developing players by dropping them in favour of a guy who doesn't want to do it? The better question in hindsight should be: was this risk viable, should BR have foreseen this situation. If he'd been a player with balls (hey he's still here he can still grow some) I'd say yes, it is/was worth it. If he goes I'm going to believe it was for the right reasons for our club. If he stays, well then BR still has hope he's the player everyone thinks he is mentally as well as skill wise.
Yeah I am a fam of Diego as it happens. I'd have him here and I don't think he would cost too much. I was quite annoyed when you signed Johnson because I thought we should of got him. Trade with Downing?!
Ha ha, **** no! He's starting to look like the player we were all so excited about last few weeks, him & Sess seem to be learning each others games, and that is a problem for any team, they are really sensational talents, way above what we are used to. On downing though, I'd be happy to pay £6 rising to 8 million, when we had him previously he was incredible, and I don't believe he's sudden;y became ****. I think we are the perfect move for him to try and get back to his best, we have his pals Catts & AJ in the team, we are down the road from Boro, and he's been here before and the fans loved him. The pressure of the fee killed him, he could have been a great signing, and had more patience, had you paid £10-12 million max, once you nudge £20million you are being bracketed with some of the best in the world and that is gonna accelerate and highlight your failings from day one. I'd be delighted with him, and our midfiled, if Catts can stay fit (for **** sake!) would look excellent Downing Sess Johnson Catts Seb For a club like us, that'd be fantastic, and maybe enough for us to start thinking about Europe, ever! Diego, he has that 'done **** all for 88mins, then scored one made one, won 2-1' thing, any top side needs one of those!
Yeah i'd love him. I agree on Downing that it was always going to difficult to live up to the, quite simply, rediculous fee we paid for him. For a while I thought someone had got the decimal place wrong! If you offered 8 i'd rip your hand off. He has been better than horrific recently, but I can't see him ever doing it for us. I do think he could do a decent job for you though. He's not crap, but I would question his mental strength. If he's comfortable then he'll be average and pop up with the odd good thing. I think you're better than your League position shows currently.
Unquestionably we are mate, last 5 games has shown us in a better light, thank christ. Off for a pre0match steak now, but all the best after tonight, and will drop in later (unless you tank us....)
I wonder how your buddy Billy must be knowing that Sahin doesn't want to be here. That's just nonsense. Obviously he must be quite pissed to not even make it to the squad. That's just killing his morale. But then again you mentioned that BR must not be satisfied with what he sees in training, then again i wonder what he must be seeing in Joke Cole to give him the occasional 'savior subs' role. And Allen hardly has done anything significant to justify his selection yet he keeps giving him chances. He was supposed be rested but infact he only didn't start the following match but was thrown in at the second half when we were 3-0 up. whereas BR could have given the chance for other squad players. Oh and Sahin never moaned on playing out of position,he just suggested the position he's most comfortable with, but did say he'd work hard to adapt if needed but that he only needed time since he has never played in that position before. But it's clear that he lacks the pace to play as an AMC, as he'd be pressed more often but i'm sure he'd do well as a deep lying playmaker(the Alonso role).
I have to agree with this. Sahin was being chased by some pretty major clubs, he had his choice of Arsenal, us, or to stay at Madrid. Mourinho came out and said the choice was his to go where "he wanted to go to play". Why wouldn't he want to be here? I feel bad for him. He scored a few goals, started to play well, started drifting back to a comfortable role, only to see BR drop him for Allen. Every time. Two things in life are certain, death and taxes. I'd like to add to that the fact that one of Allen or Downing will be starting. No matter how bad they play there is a spot for them. BR also "didn't see" (we don't know, we only assume) anything in Henderson when he threatened to sell him/drop him. We see how Henderson is taking his chance. BR also has had patience for Joe Cole time and time again. Next, Sahin being lightweight isn't true. To call him lightweight in one sentence and then to praise his replacement Allen in the other is hypocritical. Allen's been muscled off the ball so many times this season in dangerous positions, Sahin wasn't in his few games. He's looked slow (he is slow) because he's not playing where he should be playing. Ahead of Lucas, behind Allen/Gerrard. I don't ever trust the "must see something in training/hasn't impressed in training" statements. Hodgson must have seen something in Poulsen in training. Alonso must have not impressed Rafa Benitez in training either. Managers, like us, are biased. they aren't infallible. They will try to make their signings look good. They will try to make themselves look like a genius, like with the Downing LB, Shelvey FW experiments. Sahin has been on the recieving end of that. His chances are cut back, because he's only a loanee. He won't ever get used properly because that would put pressure on Allen. The fact that we don't want him yet Inter Milan do speaks volumes. It's happened before with Alonso, with the same position. We excused it by saying Gerrard could play there, Lucas could take over, Mascherano was better, etc. Truth was, we made a mistake. Sahin will will be a mistake.
1. Its about as nonsense as saying the manager who ACTUALLY works with the player every day is somehow making an error in judgement and you have somehow the inside track on this player because he once played well for another team in another league? So I refer back to who I will trust & suggest my first point again in that it seems to depend on whether you rate BR first on how you view this & other situations. 2.As has been pointed out other players must have been pissed at one time or another; both Downing & Henderson have literally been told they can go at times this season. Reaction? Improved effort & attitude. There is no reason Sahin couldn't do:have done the same. He may be unlucky that Lucas returned when Allen looked shot, that's about it. 3.I think we are seeing why Joe Cole was played today(Edit: we saw today not Cole played today lol). Advertisement. To get his ridiculous wages off our bill. Not finalised but the tactic appears to have worked so I'm not putting that down as an error but an accomplishment by BR. 4.Fair enough; I'll take your interpretation of mentioning in an interview that he's been played out of position. If he had of worked that hard & he's skilful as suggested then logic should dictate he gets on when the manager states "his favourite" needs a break & at different times the other two weren't impressing him? I suppose you could argue that at worse BR was putting them on window display too but we'll never know the why or how. All Ill say is its worked for those to relatively speaking whether we keep them or not. I can only assume if he follows their lead he'll get a chance as well. If he can't play in ACM and doesn't want to wait for both Allen & Lucas to be rested then thems the breaks. . I've answered some similar points above. Others? 1. I'll try & find it but he was quoted as saying he didn't want to leave RM & wanted to fight for his place. He chose us as the slightly less ugly girl once slapped by the hottie. 2. We'll have to disagree about lightweight. Lucas adapted so could he. You read something I didn't write: my only praise for Allen was HE didn't make excuses. I said nothing about Allen not being lightweight, he is so no hypocrisy there mate. I'm not a football coach so I'm afraid ill have to trust the person employed by the club to make the judgement calls in training but: 3. Poulsen played (& still does play well) in his style of team. Hodgeson wanted us to play that way. The rest of our decent players didn't, the fans didn't; that's that. Sorry but Alonso didn't impress RB on the PITCH never mind in training! The year before that is. That's why he tried rightly (or in almost everyone's opinion wrongly) to replace him with Barry. Again like Hendo & at a push very recently like Downing, Alonso upped his game the following year to be the class we loved but the damage was done relationship wise. We're not going to make any money out of Sahin so why give him chance after chance? Again with this Allen is favourite nonsense: BR repeatedly said he needed a rest. So unless he's cruel or an imbicile (back to my "its about no faith in BR) there must be a reason he didn't get one: oh yeah no one playing well enough to give him one. Got one tonight though didn't he? Was Sahin the guy to come on? Nope. Was Hendo a mistake tonight? Don't think so. And why this insistence with people of making enemy camps within the club? This cynical attitude to Allen because he was bought by BR? Even if he is favoured it doesn't make him the enemy because guess what; there is no bloody enemy! They all play for our bloody team. There's almost a glee from some to see BR's appointments fail, just like with KD and RH. Why? They fail WE FAIL? That's not a point is like to score personally..... BR didn't make the mistake with Alonso and its not remotely the same set of circumstances so we cant lump them all together & land the combined effect at his feet. We make nothing and lose nothing (he's not playing anyway) in giving him back or on to inter. Can we not forget that if he'd been a blinding success he'd be off back to RM anyway or priced out of our range? Not likely we'll be playing Inter anytime soon unless we draw them in Europa. So there is no way we will ever know that its a mistake (he's not gone yet) if he went to Everton or Spurs and single handedly got them 4th! Then yes; but playing well for inter? Means nothing here. Get his wages off the books.
I watch him when he plays and I also watch him on the touchline when he's warming up just as I did tonight (or should I say strolling up and down the touchline). That's the only evidence I have but in fairness my evidence is what I've seen with my own eyes. Not stats or performances from a couple of years ago. Just what I see. You say it's nonsense. What do you base that on? What you believe to be the case is that he's class because he's had a great couple of seasons with a different club in a different league. I agree that he's a talented lad (I said as much in my original post) but so far what I've witnessed is a guy stroll about, play as many loose balls as good ones and not chase around as much as a fella should who thinks he has a point to prove (anyone remember Aquilaini). I was very happy when we went for Sahin but as I've said before I don't think loan deals are the best way forward. Either way BR will know better than you or I what the lad has been like since he came to Anfield and whether or not he has something to give going forward. I'd still like him to stay on and for him to come good but obviously it's out of my hands. I just don't see why Rodgers should be criticised for looking after the players who are Liverpool players first. You talk about Joe Cole as if he is Carlton Palmer. Well check Coles record to Sahins. Coles 7 years at Chelsea were pretty fruitful wouldn't you say. He hasn't fitted at all well here but to suggest he has no talent at all is way off the mark. Also, it's strange to suggest you can see no reason why BR might have played Joe Cole recently. I give you the words "shop window" as a little clue It's worked as well. I agree that Allen hadn't settled in well but he's a young Liverpool player. Sahin isn't. I ask again who's development should BR be prioritising? Allens or Sahins? In fairness to Allen he did more in his first handful of games than Sahin did during his spell in the team. Finally I'm not sure why an attacking midfielder needs pace. Pace in the head definitely and a burst of pace over a short distance maybe but it's a role that requires instinct and intelligence much more than pace.
