If you want Safe Standing here is a petition to support it - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040
Safe Standing
- Thread starter PGFWhite
- Start date
Surely anyone who was born before the 80s would be disgusted by this suggestion. Safe standing would eventually lead to unsafe standing. No thanks.
I understand why safe standing remains a concern for some. However, safe standing at grounds across mainland Europe is undeniably a success story, which has been achieved through improved policing, health and safety legislation, and education.
As somebody who has used "safe standing" abroad in Germany, and regularly stand at non league grounds, I would welcome the reintroduction of safe standing in professional English football. While it would require an element of investment and redevelopment I don't think our current owner would sanction immediately, I believe safe standing would improve the match day atmosphere and enable cheaper tickets to potential fans priced out of watching regular games. A majority of English football clubs, and fans if surveys are to be believed, are supportive of safe standing.
As somebody who has used "safe standing" abroad in Germany, and regularly stand at non league grounds, I would welcome the reintroduction of safe standing in professional English football. While it would require an element of investment and redevelopment I don't think our current owner would sanction immediately, I believe safe standing would improve the match day atmosphere and enable cheaper tickets to potential fans priced out of watching regular games. A majority of English football clubs, and fans if surveys are to be believed, are supportive of safe standing.
Safe standing everywhere would eventually lead to unsafe standing in some places.
It's not worth one death.
But the proposals are not requesting for safe standing to be implemented everywhere. Only a section of the stadium will be safe standing. For instance, at Portman Road, I imagine that half of the lower North Stand will be safe standing.
I strongly recommend supporters to experience safe standing at a European football game, if possible. New technology and legislation has ensured that deaths from standing at football has been eradicated in Europe because you physically cannot "surge" and push people against a barrier. This is unlike back in the 80s, and before, as there are railings, rail seating, and spacious standing room on every row. You'd have to cut down the railing in front of you or clamber over to even make it onto the next row down. Think of away games right now, most people stand right? Safe standing allows you to do that, but you just lock your rail seat in an upright position giving yourself more room.
It's a yes from me.
Every away day a lot of people want to stand up.
Seen so many unsafe incidents with people up celebrating goals / bashing the row infront.
Works in Germany / should work here.
I get the
Completely with you here mate - it's time it was brought in and happened.
Take a standard away game for instance - EVERYONE stands / so you have women / children / old people pretty much snookered who may not wish to because well over half the away fans want to stand the entire game.
The idea of people sitting down on away games - from a laddish point of view ' stand up you melt don't be wet bants bants get hammered ' I cannot remember the last time I sat down at an away game?! It just doesn't happen.
I know the stigma with Hillsborough - however I think it's fair to say since various inquiries have happened since just how deceitful certain ' people ' have been since. Scum, sub human scum.....
Seems to work at Celtic - clearly needs to be implemented properly / correctly / safely - however look at Dortmund.
Looks okay to me!?
Every away day a lot of people want to stand up.
Seen so many unsafe incidents with people up celebrating goals / bashing the row infront.
Works in Germany / should work here.
I get the
Completely with you here mate - it's time it was brought in and happened.
Take a standard away game for instance - EVERYONE stands / so you have women / children / old people pretty much snookered who may not wish to because well over half the away fans want to stand the entire game.
The idea of people sitting down on away games - from a laddish point of view ' stand up you melt don't be wet bants bants get hammered ' I cannot remember the last time I sat down at an away game?! It just doesn't happen.
I know the stigma with Hillsborough - however I think it's fair to say since various inquiries have happened since just how deceitful certain ' people ' have been since. Scum, sub human scum.....
Seems to work at Celtic - clearly needs to be implemented properly / correctly / safely - however look at Dortmund.
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Looks okay to me!?
It looks like common sense to me and I think it would improve the match day experience and atmosphere, plus provide the option for cheaper tickets. The main downside I can see would be the reaction from the media in the event of a fight among supporter supporters perhaps or an old person falling over? Occasionally happens in stadiums today, but if it occurred in a safe standing zone, I can easily see the Daily Mail and the red top papers all to eager to stir the pot. I think the culture of football has changed and improved over the years, so these occasions are thankfully rare.
Nuggets... what I'm concerned about is not the current scale of this but what happens in the decades to come if this becomes widespread - the seating and lack of manoeuvrability limits the number of people in an area of space better than these can do.
And secondly the relaxation of regulations over time. You can't say that that won't happen because this proposal in itself is a relaxation of the regulations.
Football is much safer now and it's just not a road we need to go down. The risks outweigh the benefits.
And secondly the relaxation of regulations over time. You can't say that that won't happen because this proposal in itself is a relaxation of the regulations.
Football is much safer now and it's just not a road we need to go down. The risks outweigh the benefits.
We're nowhere near capacity so this isn't going to make tickets cheaper.
Yes it has - and that's largely because we have all-seater stadia.
I don't see the risk in safe standing, not with the improved regulations, format, and proven track record overseas. It is physically impossible to crush fellow supporters with the "safe standing" lay out they use abroad and that is the lay out being proposed in England. By using rail seating, you will be in effect standing how you would at a current away end, and there have been no fatalities from standing in an away end. Regarding prices, standing prices will be cheaper than seated pricing, this happens abroad and at events like gigs, so it could potentially improve attendances. I think when you have a majority of clubs and an overwhelming majority of supporters appearing to back the safe standing proposal, it is worthwhile trialling, at least.
I acknowledge your point about the Taylor Report regarding improved safety, but I think this is far more attributable to harsher bans, a more proactive, responsible police force, and improved socio-economic standards of living, which have all acted as stronger deterrents to hooliganism than full seater stadiums, in my opinion. Full seater stadiums did not prevent hooliganism from happening outside the stadium, but the above factors certainly have .
I acknowledge your point about the Taylor Report regarding improved safety, but I think this is far more attributable to harsher bans, a more proactive, responsible police force, and improved socio-economic standards of living, which have all acted as stronger deterrents to hooliganism than full seater stadiums, in my opinion. Full seater stadiums did not prevent hooliganism from happening outside the stadium, but the above factors certainly have .
The track record is over a short period of time on a small scale - it's not proof of what would occur if this was large areas of many stadiums - so let's get one thing straight, there isn't any track record that tells us this will be safe under different conditions.
The risk is not so much the current format, the risk is if it starts with this rail seating and then gradually the seats are removed (once everyone is comfortable that this is safe why would you keep the seats if everyone is standing?) and we're left with the rails.
Humans have proven themselves time and again to make stupid and dangerous decisions and as long as the direction of travel is relaxing regulations we would inevitably end up with a dangerous situation when somebody didn't follow whatever procedure there might be.
It's really hard for a seated area to be made dangerous by incompetent people.
The track record is mainland Europe where safe standing has been around since 2004, most notably in Germany. That is almost a decade and a half. The stadiums will remain overwhelmingly seated and existing rules and regulations will still apply to the seated areas. Campaigners are not requesting an overhaul, but the option for limited safe standing areas for supporters. I understand that clubs are not obligated to even implement safe standing areas at their stadiums if they don't want too.
If rail seating is applied to safe standing areas, then it will be illegal to remove these seats as UEFA requires full-seated stadiums (not so much an issue for us for the forseeable future, but the rules will be adhered to on a wider basis).
I think that given its popularity and success, it is well worth trialling.
You're missing the point Nuggets.
Just as what used to be called the living wage is now effectively the minimum wage, so in 30 years' time it will still be called safe standing, but it will just be standing.
Just as what used to be called the living wage is now effectively the minimum wage, so in 30 years' time it will still be called safe standing, but it will just be standing.
Conversely Yorkie, I think you are assuming safe standing policing standards will deteroriate or the demand will make stadiums more weighted towards "standing only" areas, which are subjective points. From what we have seen elsewhere, over a long period of time, I think safe standing is a successful and popular option to the match going experience, but on this subject I will agree to disagree.
If nobody ever got hurt then of course I'd be all for it. But I just don't think it's a risk worth taking in case it does deteriorate.
I've actually been hurt / had people land on me during a goal celebration before from 3 / 4 rows up during away days where everyone persistently stands at present. Bloody hurt.
As per the video above - if implemented properly, see no reason why not.
As per the video above - if implemented properly, see no reason why not.
Let's never get complacent about safety at elite football matches in this country.
https://www.eurosport.co.uk/footbal...nce-collapses-at-eibar_sto6952780/story.shtml
https://www.eurosport.co.uk/footbal...nce-collapses-at-eibar_sto6952780/story.shtml