Safe Standing/Rail Seating

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What about safe standing then?

  • I’m against the idea because I might have to change where I sit in the ground

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40
Safe standing introduced today at Chelsea.

Meanwhile at Birmingham City from what I can see every single away supporter, even the kids, stood for the entire game, and as far as I know there was no attempt to ask people to sit.

Rules eh?
 
Safe standing introduced today at Chelsea.

Meanwhile at Birmingham City from what I can see every single away supporter, even the kids, stood for the entire game, and as far as I know there was no attempt to ask people to sit.

Rules eh?

So presumably if one suffers from ill health/can't stand for long periods etc, one should just not attend?
 
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So presumably if one suffers from ill health/can't stand for long periods etc, one should just not attend?
For away games that might be the only option if yesterday is anything to go by, it was the fans who chose to stand. Just the nature of many of the people who go to away games I suppose (I don’t go to many, but should do). Next to me was a family with 2 kids under ten, who stood on their seats for much of the game. They all loved it, the mum was even relaxed about the language, burly blokes turning round to apologise for their swearing frequently, to which she responded ‘it’s a football match, it’s what I expect’ with a smile.

The only way to enforce sitting would have been steward action by little Hitlers like that fat bloke which would have ended badly.

Or you could buy a seat in another part of the stadium, like a neutral.
 
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For away games that might be the only option if yesterday is anything to go by, it was the fans who chose to stand. Just the nature of many of the people who go to away games I suppose (I don’t go to many, but should do). Next to me was a family with 2 kids under ten, who stood on their seats for much of the game. They all loved it, the mum was even relaxed about the language, burly blokes turning round to apologise for their swearing frequently, to which she responded ‘it’s a football match, it’s what I expect’ with a smile.

The only way to enforce sitting would have been steward action by little Hitlers like that fat bloke which would have ended badly.

Or you could buy a seat in another part of the stadium, like a neutral.

Mmm. Not an ideal situation imo.
 
What do you suggest?

Not sure.
I realise there is demand for standing areas and I probably wouldn't mind doing it, at least for a the next few years.
I also acknowledge that it would help with atmosphere.
I was playing devil's advocate to an extent, wondering how fans with chronic pain conditions etc would cope with standing if the entire away section was stood.
Maybe the first few rows could be designated as sitting for those that don't want to or can't stand?
All standing sections are fine by me in a ground, so long as there are not safety issues.
 
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Not sure.
I realise there is demand for standing areas and I probably wouldn't mind doing it, at least for a the next few years.
I also acknowledge that it would help with atmosphere.
I was playing devil's advocate to an extent, wondering how fans with chronic pain conditions etc would cope with standing if the entire away section was stood.
Maybe the first few rows could be designated as sitting for those that don't want to or can't stand?
All standing sections are fine by me in a ground, so long as there are not safety issues.
I think that’s the answer going forward, safe standing areas for away fans and designated seats where sitting is expected and enforced for them. The club has to decide how many of each type to buy. Doesn’t help in situations like yesterday though. Perhaps there was some sitting on the periphery of the away fan block (I didn’t see), but as there wasn’t any choice on where your seat was hard to pick and choose. There was an area for wheelchair fans though.
 
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I think that’s the answer going forward, safe standing areas for away fans and designated seats where sitting is expected and enforced for them. The club has to decide how many of each type to buy. Doesn’t help in situations like yesterday though. Perhaps there was some sitting on the periphery of the away fan block (I didn’t see), but as there wasn’t any choice on where your seat was hard to pick and choose. There was an area for wheelchair fans though.
I was right on the periphery yesterday (seat no1) and no-one sat...So I didn't as I wouldn't be able to see if I did. The seat was so on the periphery I could see regardless of the standing but.....
I am for rail seating...but not for me (for obvious physical reasons). I always assumed that rail seating meant JUST standing....as no one will sit there...and to be honest cannot understand why the seats are there at all (other than to give you a designated place as "your own".
 
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I was right on the periphery yesterday (seat no1) and no-one sat...So I didn't as I wouldn't be able to see if I did. The seat was so on the periphery I could see regardless of the standing but.....
I am for rail seating...but not for me (for obvious physical reasons). I always assumed that rail seating meant JUST standing....as no one will sit there...and to be honest cannot understand why the seats are there at all (other than to give you a designated place as "your own".
The seats are there for precisely that reason - to give you a designated spot and to prevent overcrowding/crushing. I think some German grounds can easily remove the seats to create old style terracing….usually done when they are relegated from Bundesliga A….

If you design the rail seating well, ie very steep stands with a bit of height between each row, you really can either sit or stand unless you have a giant in front of you. I seem to remember this was the case in Wolfsburg’s stadium where they also had plastic stein sized cup holders for your beer. But you’d have to build stands from scratch to achieve this. Would actually work well to increase capacity and comfort at KPFS - very tall narrow stands surrounding the pitch……..exhausting getting to your seat up a mountainside though.
 
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that is correct, so no increase in capacity. But I hope in the future they deem it safe to return to terracing
Part of why they might not hurry into this could be the fact that almost everyone stands up in the R and Q blocks anyway. People who want to stand up get tickets there (I imagine that's already been mentioned somewhere here!).
 
Just had an email from the club saying that half of the Lower Loft is going to be converted to rail seating, and PU block in the Upper Loft converted to be a family stand. I’ll try and post the image.
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Decent view down there when I sat with Ninesy, and when I used to stand in the old days. Very tempted. ‘Only respond to the proposal if you have objections to it’

I thought clubs installing these seats had to make a similar number available for away fans.
 
So I'm in the area they are proposing and sit in the back row. My son and I are both very tall and when we stand we can't see the other end of the pitch (due to overhand of the stand above). I can't ask to move forward as whoever is behind us will not be able to see anything. All a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned and this area has been selected by people it doesn't affect.
 
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So I'm in the area they are proposing and sit in the back row. My son and I are both very tall and when we stand we can't see the other end of the pitch (due to overhand of the stand above). I can't ask to move forward as whoever is behind us will not be able to see anything. All a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned and this area has been selected by people it doesn't affect.
That sounds a bit ****. Will you be writing in?
 
Teamsters: A sleeping American giant now spoiling for a fight
By Sam Cabral
BBC News, Washington

Published
17 hours ago
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IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Sean O'Brien (left) is the new president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
It is not a surprise when Sean O'Brien tells the BBC that he plans to take one of America's largest labour unions from "complacency" to "militancy".

On Tuesday, Mr O'Brien, 49, became the first new president in 23 years to take the helm of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters - a 1.4 million member union that represents professions from warehouse workers to freight drivers - and he has made it known that he is aching for a fight.

"Over the last 10 years, there hasn't been any vigilance, any militancy, and corporate America knew that," he said, speaking to the BBC after his election last year.

Under his tenure, "we're going to put the Teamsters back on the map", he said.

Mr O'Brien has vowed to re-negotiate "substandard" and "concessionary" national contracts with companies like United Parcel Service (UPS), one of the largest mail carriers in the US, and says he will not shy away from walkouts if his demands are not met.

And he has an even bigger goal in his sights: taking on Amazon.

"We've got to protect, preserve and improve working conditions," he said.

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IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Former Teamsters boss James Hoffa marches at a rally in 1999
In many places, the Teamsters are almost synonymous with US labour unionism, founded in the early heyday of a movement that began in the country in the 19th Century.

That was true for Mr O'Brien, a Boston native who is a fourth-generation member. His father, grandfather and great-grandfather were all truck drivers with the union.

As a boy, he watched his father get up at 4am and come home late at night. Sometimes he would tag along to union meetings. "I adored the camaraderie," he recalled.

"I learned what it was to be a union member around the dinner table," he said.

At 18, he joined the Teamsters as a rigger, hauling heavy equipment around construction sites. Since 2006, Mr O'Brien has represented some 12,000 Bostonians and their families as head of the Local 25 union.


He took credit for 19 strikes during his tenure, the majority of which he says the union won.

Now in his 32nd year with the Teamsters, his is a familiar face. He was previously the vice-president of the national union's eastern region. "I love this organisation," he said. "It has given me everything in my entire life".

But today, "we have a whole new workforce coming in that weren't raised part of a union, didn't get free healthcare and weren't guaranteed pensions", Mr O'Brien said.

"This new generation is not afraid to fight, but they're only going to fight if they have strong leadership and strong support."

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IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Notorious Teamsters leader Jimmy Hoffa vanished without a trace in 1975
But the organisation in modern times has vacillated between becoming a byword for grift and gangsterism - or stagnation.

For 36 of its 119 years, the Teamsters had been led by someone with the surname Hoffa.


The first, Jimmy, was notorious for using the strength of the union to bolster organised crime.

Hoffa was not the first to forge links between unionism and crime; the inaugural Teamsters boss Cornelius Shea was indicted for embezzlement in 1908, and early Teamster leaders were known to collude with employers to price-fix.

But under Hoffa's watch, the mafia gained influence at its highest leadership levels, including its executive board. Mobsters raided the Teamsters' most important pension fund to bankroll their development projects in Las Vegas.

Despite the union being mired in corruption, "the contradiction is he builds a union that's quite powerful", said David Witwer, a labour historian at Penn State Harrisburg University.

Hoffa was "a true icon of the Teamsters Union", Mr O'Brien told Boston Magazine. "We had tremendous political clout on [Jimmy Hoffa's] watch."

But the reputation of Teamsters as blue-collar toughs willing to walk on the wrong side of the law has stuck. Even in the early 1990s, Teamsters were being charged with racketeering crimes.

Mr O'Brien has previously said that it is hard to get away from the reputation. "But the bottom line is that there's no organised crime presence in the Teamsters Union," he told Boston Magazine.

Hoffa, who led the Teamsters from 1957 to 1971, disappeared in 1975 at the time of a planned meeting with Detroit mafiosi.

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IMAGE SOURCE,PAUL TRUJILLO
Image caption,
Paul Trujillo (left) voted for "change" when he supported Sean O'Brien's campaign last year
His son, James, took over in 1998. Though gone were the mobsters on speed dial, many - including Mr O'Brien - argue that his tenure has left the union at its weakest and most divided in years.

The union's power has "declined in every meaningful way, from contracts to pensions to member involvement", said David Levin, lead organiser at the Teamsters for a Democratic Union (TDU), an internal reform group that backed Mr O'Brien.

It was because James Hoffa "talked tough, settled short and declared victory", Mr Levin lamented.

Mr Hoffa declined to comment for this story.

In November, the candidate he hand-picked was defeated by Mr O'Brien by a two-to-one margin.

Much of the recent frustration with Mr O'Brien's predecessor arose from 2017 negotiations with UPS for a new national contract.

As president, Mr O'Brien has said he will take that on.

"A lot of companies - not just UPS but several major employers - knew that the Teamsters union wasn't going to strike," he said.

"The empty threats need to be realities moving forward".

The Teamsters have not had a national walkout since 1997. Its defence fund for members on strike has ballooned to over $300m (£226m) under Mr Hoffa.

Mr O'Brien's contention is that, if he fights hard for better contracts, he can mobilise his members to recruit warehouse workers at Amazon.

"That means being tough at the negotiating table and using a template that we can take to unorganised workers," he said.

Pro-labour sentiment is trending upward in the US, both at the picket line and in the Biden administration, he points out.

"Think about it: we oversee and run every mode of transportation for the entire country, whether it's planes, trains, boats or trucks. We've got a great opportunity here".

What the hell has that got to do with seating at Loftus Road?