I would rather have Catts than Tiote as well, but I think that's because Catts suits our team better. Both are pretty average when it comes to going forward and passing is suspect at times, both player get by on their hard work and determination.
Tiote for me, although Cabaye is a better player than both of them. Cabaye was last season's best tackler in the entire league if I remember right. If Sunderland keep Cabaye and Ben Arfa quiet, it will be a good start. As it stands injury/suspension wise, looking at the possible line ups it's really a no-contest in CM, Newcastle will dominate that area of the pitch, I can see O'Neill trying to send everything down the flanks then onto Fletcher's head. Trouble is with that, if your fullbacks get forward, Ben Arfa will be having a field day. The link up play between Sessegnon and the forward(s) is pivotal for Sunderland, if you attack Newcastle at pace you'll get at them and you just have to make sure you take any chances, because the difference between the two of you last season if you look at the stats, is that Newcastle's strikers were devasatating and Sunderland's were awful. Seriously, go look at the Opta stats for last season, there's about 2% between you but where the Sunderland strikers were tapping the ball into the keepers hands, Ba & Cisse were bulging the net. That's probably why O'Neill wanted the very prolific (in terms of chance conversions) Fletcher for his side. I'm happy to go first here, since it's a no lose for me. Sunderland 1-1 Newcastle - Newcastle to dominate the match after an early Ba goal, maybe a disallowed goal that should have stood for them (just to add some spice) a top performance from Mignolet and Johnson to score a timely equaliser on around 80 mins to make him an instant hero on wearside. Pardew will sh!t his nappy and complain about the ref and how he's not allowed to push him, but he wanted to, he wanted to push him down the stairs. On 89th minute, Steve Bruce runs on the pitch with no clothes on and a stereo in his hand playing "the winner takes it all", before running straight into an Anderson Silva knee strike to his nose, the doctor declares his nose inoperable at the scene and he is forced to replace it with a few chewed up walnuts. The ref decides that there's gonna be no Fergie time at all and all the players cheer in unison because they don't have to drink the piss and sick bucket, as part of the derby day losers ritual. Derby day eh, the excitement.
Tiote for me, although Cabaye is a better player than both of them. Cabaye was last season's best tackler in the entire league if I remember right. If Sunderland keep Cabaye and Ben Arfa quiet, it will be a good start. As it stands injury/suspension wise, looking at the possible line ups it's really a no-contest in CM, Newcastle will dominate that area of the pitch, I can see O'Neill trying to send everything down the flanks then onto Fletcher's head. Trouble is with that, if your fullbacks get forward, Ben Arfa will be having a field day. The link up play between Sessegnon and the forward(s) is pivotal for Sunderland, if you attack Newcastle at pace you'll get at them and you just have to make sure you take any chances, because the difference between the two of you last season if you look at the stats, is that Newcastle's strikers were devasatating and Sunderland's were awful. Seriously, go look at the Opta stats for last season, there's about 2% between you but where the Sunderland strikers were tapping the ball into the keepers hands, Ba & Cisse were bulging the net. That's probably why O'Neill wanted the very prolific (in terms of chance conversions) Fletcher for his side. I'm happy to go first here, since it's a no lose for me. Sunderland 1-1 Newcastle - Newcastle to dominate the match after an early Ba goal, maybe a disallowed goal that should have stood for them (just to add some spice) a top performance from Mignolet and Johnson to score a timely equaliser on around 80 mins to make him an instant hero on wearside. Pardew will sh!t his nappy and complain about the ref and how he's not allowed to push him, but he wanted to, he wanted to push him down the stairs. On 89th minute, Steve Bruce runs on the pitch with no clothes on and a stereo in his hand playing "the winner takes it all", before running straight into an Anderson Silva knee strike to his nose, the doctor declares his nose inoperable at the scene and he is forced to replace it with a few chewed up walnuts. The ref decides that there's gonna be no Fergie time at all and all the players cheer in unison because they don't have to drink the piss and sick bucket, as part of the derby day losers ritual. Derby day eh, the excitement.
WP - I have watched probably as much of Tiote recently as you have of Cattermole - and there is no way he is better in every department - I think both are about the same - Tiote's distribution is poor and Cattermoles isn't great - both are excellent in the tackle and I suppose the one thing Tiote is better at is play-acting
No but the suggestion that Cattermole is in Tiotes class is amusing. Cattermole is decent as I've said many times when he is not too hyped up. However while Tiote has not been on great form, at his best he is just better at everything. Don't take my word for it though, you only have to look at who the big boys like Man U and Chelsea have been keeping tabs on. I like Cheik so I'm not gonna agree that he is horrible or a twat. But he is dirty and like just about every footballer, he is not adverse to the dark arts of play acting etc. I wouldn't single him out for that though as it would highly silly to do so. Every footballer across the planet could do with watching one game of rugby union or league, then looking themself in the mirror and asking "why am I such a tart?" If they can trample on each others heads and continue I'm sure its not much to ask our footballers to man up a little. While we have such a weak UEFA/FIFA/FA's worldwide approach to the problem, then the play acting will continue because the "can't beat em join em" attitude will prevail
The onlyt reason that the big boys aren;t looking at Catts (although Livepool were last season) is down to reputation - from what I've seen of him the last few season this reputation is unfounded - he doesn't go out to hurt players intentionally - yet Tiote does?? I seriously would prefer Cattermole - Tiote's distribution is certainly no better than Catts - ask Man City who the best Defensive midfielder their hundreds of millions played against last season? It wasn't Tiote! Also re Play Acting - I've never seen Cattermole play act - never rolls around and, to be honest, he reminds of the way John Kay used to be - i.e. he would still want to play with a broken leg
Our midfield hasn't been what it was this year. Tiote has been in and out of the side for ages, Cabaye didn't have a pre season and Jonas has only had 1 good game all year and has been rotated with a new signing. I think we're starting to look more like we should now but I don't think we're going to be dominating any midfields just yet. Especially because Pardew seems insistent on playing a 4-4-2 instead of our hugely successful 4-3-3 from last year which was so successful at the end of the season in the particular. Reckon we'll start awfully as we have been, but defend strongly. I don't fear Sunderland going forward, the only midfielder capable of damaging us at the minute is Larsson from set pieces of if he's given an attacking CENTRAL role beside he's a ****e winger. We're going to (hopefully) have our strongest defence out so far this season and you only have one goalscorers so if we can nullify him we'll be fine and win the game
Also, love how the neutral view is always so highly speaking of Tiote The comparisons by Sunderland fans to their mediocre also rans are laughable
Marcus mate, I know you're Cattermole's biggest fan, trust me I totally understand you backing your own players and I really get the fact that you're fighting your corner in this Tiote vs Cattermole debate, as it's really all subjective anyways. But... that's not the only reason that the top clubs (Of which LFC are not) are not interested in Cattermole. You have to look at the standards of the players in his position at the top clubs. 1. At City they have Yaya T, Javi Garcia, Gareth Barry and Jack Rodwell. That's a mixed bag but the first two are special players. They let De Jong leave who is better than Cattermole at his job but just as dirty in the challenge. 2. At United we have Carrick, Scholes, Cleverley, Fletcher and Kagawa - the main two being Carrick and Cleverley in Catt's position, both of whom are head and shoulders above him, as is Fletcher if his recovery goes well, he scores goals and does the breaking up in midfield. Fletcher and Carrick have been part of 3 United sides in Champions League finals. 3. At Chelsea they have Ramires, Mikel, Lampard, Hazard, Oscar, plus another 3,000 midfield players. Ramires is for me the best in the world at what he does, Mikel is adequate at that level, good enough to win a Champions League, I can't argue with that. I do think Essien was their greatest DM though, shame his injuries forced him out of this fast paced league. 4. Arsenal have Song, Diaby, Arteta and Ramsey - Cattermole could fit right in amongst that shower of sh!t, I mean Song is class on his day and very consistent but the rest are well below par and...oh, yeah sorry, my bad. Wilshere. Probably the most promising player to emerge in this country since Rooney. Has all of the ingredients to be the best DM bar none, if he stays fit he looks like a total warrior in the making, miles ahead of anything else coming through the England ranks, controlled Xavi and Iniesta on his own. I know some of this has been tongue in cheek stuff, but Cattermole just doesn't have the minerals to mix it with that lot. He is lacking some very fundamental qualities to even get a mention and for me it's absolutely nothing to do with his reputation and everything to do with his ability. He's at his level now as far as I can see. Liverpool, yeah, probably good enough for that lot.
By the way, the only reason I said Tiote was because of his performance against us in their 3-0 hammering of us last season. I've never seen one player single handedly take our entire midfield and make them redundant, we just couldn't get the ball, even Giggs was losing the ball every time. However that probably sparked Fergie into bringing back the Sat Nav, so I will be eternally grateful to Tiote for that. I've always liked Ben Arfa since we were linked to him in his teenage years, and Cabaye is en route to the very top, whether it be in England I have no idea but he won't be part of a set up that doesn't win trophies for much longer, he's a natural winner and can play for the biggest teams. I think Johnson could be key man for Sunderland, along with Sessegnon. Both of these players can hurt any team, bags of quality and up against two defenders returning from injury they could have a field day, Newcastle's midfielders need to fix up and make sure they're tight.
No arguments with most of that but I can only speak on what I've seen of players - the Cattermole that played against Man City last season certainly has the minerals - same as the one that played against Liverpool this season - he has looked a fantastic Defensive Midfielder (I have watched himn every game) He outplayed Toure, De Jong etc. (Gareth Barry) last season and I honestly think we'd have done much better against City this season with him in the side. People who watch him in bit parts don't rate him because they all hear the (very unfair) bad press he gets - yet people whon watch him week in week out rate him and realise how important he is to the way we are playing - I have watched him and Tiote this season and, other than that one long pass for Ba's volley, Tiote has been no better than Cattermole - and even the lads I sit with in the office (all mags) think that was a fluke due to his distribution being so poor this season. I would not swap Cattermole for Tiote end of as I don't see anything in Tiote which is better than Cattermole in the same role for Sunderland (other than play acting) Terry - just to be pedantic - Arsenal sold Song!! (And Ramsey is very overrated IMO) And Wilshire is just as dirty as Cattermole but doesn't seem to get any retribution (better passer of the ball though)
Marcus, you're spot on, I totally forgot they sold Song and Ramsay is turd at best, as is Rosicky but because of his distribution I'd assume Wenger wouldn't even consider Cattermole, it's all about passing for Wenger. Wilshere is not as dirty as Cattermole though, I have no idea where you've got that from. Take Cattermole aged 18/19 compared to Wilshere, jeez we're talking about a massive gulf in filth there. In my opinion, Cattermole can only dream of playing the type of game Wilshere plays, he's a different class, not just to Catts but to most of the players in his position in Europe. I hope he's fit for an Arsenal vs City game this season I'd put money on it that he absolutely owns Toure. For me, I haven't extensively studied Cattermole, but I have seen enough of him to form opinions on him that most people agree with. Further to this, it's naive to think that scouts haven't been watching him extensively since he was aged 10, Arsenal, Chelsea and both Manchester Clubs will have had scouts looking at him at some point, who can identify if he's good enough to make the cut. If it was all reputation based, then I'd fancy one of Wenger/Fergie/Mancini to take him under their wing and sort him out, given that they've (Mancini aside) nurtured some of the greatest talent this country has ever seen between them. Carry on with your Tiote/Catts debate though, I'd say Tiote is slightly more reliable, he picks up yellows and calculates his bookings. He seems to know how to control him self for the most part when he's teetering on a yellow card. Cattermole will just wade in and face the consequences when he's back on his feet, he has no grounds for complaint. Nobody should be pointing to consistency from ref's or saying his reputation precedes him, when all it takes to avoid the red card is for him to keep his cool, stay on his feet and not make the challenge, the onus is on him to repair his reputation, not the referees.
