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Round 21: Ferrari To Contest Title? (Flag-Gate)

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Delete Me, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    to many chefs and all that :)
     
    #161
  2. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    to true <ok>
     
    #162
  3. tomcat606

    tomcat606 Member

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    I agree.

    'fro'? The smiley? Nothing, just picked something that looks like "in good mood". Does it mean anything special i should have known?
     
    #163
  4. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    It's clear: Drivers must only focus on the Flags and Light panels on the designated area's stationed by the FIA, the flashing dashboard has no meaning on that situation on how each sector must be taken by the drivers.
     
    #164
  5. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    Silver and Tomtom would have exploded now had the news been the opposite lol.
     
    #165
  6. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    The FIA have yet to clarify the rule to Ferrari yet so Im guessing its not that clear
     
    #166
  7. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Excatly, it's not in there (the dashboard) I've checked lol!
     
    #167
  8. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    I know, it's utterly ridiculous to have the flags and light activators in different places, 22 flag zones 16 light zones, why on Earth? As to Ferrari, the longer I've watched F1 the less surprised I become by how low they'll sink.
     
    #168
  9. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    To be fair they havnt sunk at any depth on this one as they havnt appealed and wont do.
     
    #169
  10. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Good question, Bando! The answer is reasonably simple, as I hope the following paragraph will make clear. However, there is a subtlety underlying the reason for the way it is, which I have included beneath the '- - -o0o- - -'.

    If a green flag is waved in any section of the track which is currently under yellows (lights), the flag effectively cancels subsequent yellows which are being shown at the same time as yellow lights in the same 'yellow section' of the track. To put it another way, the green flag over-rides any yellow light signal still being shown at the time which is beyond the marshal post in that same 'yellow section' of the track (i.e. not another yellow section which may exist for another incident).
    - - -o0o- - -
    Explanation of logic behind this arrangement, and the current perception of the need for the rule as it presently exists:

    [Edit: I've tried to make this clearer but the problem is that words need to be completely unambiguous, just like muddy regulations!]

    The position of the incident is invariably before the last (in this case yellow) light being shown. However, when the danger has been considered nullified beyond the marshal post, but before the next light, it is in the interests of racing that racing be allowed to recommence as soon as possible, rather than having to (unnecessarily) wait until the next light (regardless of its colour) &#8211; which may be some distance away. Bear in mind that the position of the lights may not coincide with marshal posts, and that this may be deliberately done so as to give better track coverage. For instance, there may be places on any circuit where giving information to drivers is considered important but where a marshal post could present a danger either to drivers or the marshals themselves.

    My suggestion has for some time been that a marshal post should be equipped with a 'light-screen' which can be activated by the marshals, rather than relying on a progressively outmoded (for F1) system of real, cloth flags. The reason behind my thinking is that the speeds and conditions of F1 cars relative to other motorsport, mean that a driver tends to mentally tune in to the more visible signal. This is compounded when visibilty is reduced, especially when wet, when even seeing a whole car ahead can be very difficult*.

    *F1 cars are fitted with high visibility flashing tail lights, not coloured (or even fluorescent) flags!
     
    #170

  11. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what Cosicave says above.

    Lights are better than floppy flags as you can see them FAR further away than a flag and it's easier for the drivers to spot. Though to avoid confusion like this in the future they must be put on every post, not 80% of them as this kind of **** will keep coming up.
     
    #171
  12. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    they've asked for clarification, if the clarification was Vettels move was illegal there's no doubt in my mind Ferrari would then appeal.
     
    #172
  13. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    I can see the confusion but I hope my long-winded explanation above has shed some light on it.
    ;)

    Right, I'll get me coat&#8230;

    In terms of "explaining things to Ferrari", of course they fully understand the rule. They asked for clarification of the circumstances, not the rule!
     
    #173
  14. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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  15. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    If this proposal is adopted, we can be sure that it will be adopted for 100% of the marshal posts.
     
    #175
  16. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    Thanks Cosi,

    I agree that F1 should be fully light automated with flag on standby for backup if a light fails. It always amazes me how F1 drivers see flags anyway.
     
    #176
  17. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    me too, I had problems seeing them while karting, too much concentration on my driving meant a few trips to the stewards and the odd penalty.
     
    #177
  18. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Well, not fully automated as the light system could fail so they will always need flags as backup at every posts but I see what you're saying <ok>
     
    #178
  19. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    When one bears in mind the speeds of F1 cars, coupled with reduced visibility, it is easy to see the inadequacy of old-fashioned flags which become ever less effective as speeds (particularly cornering speeds) continue to increase.

    A fighter pilot can see flags before he/she taxis but even during bright sunlight it would be daft to line a runway with them as an aid to landing.
    - - -o0o- - -

    Quite apart from the drivers, F1 has quite rightly become more concerned about providing for a more involving experience for spectators and viewers. And how many viewers notice a waved green flag when, just like the drivers, they are more likely to be unconsciously watching lights?
     
    #179
  20. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Yes. This is why I said,
    "My suggestion has for some time been that a marshal post should be equipped with a 'light-screen' which can be activated by the marshals, &#8230;"


    One should bear in mind that race control is very much reliant upon feedback from marshals, who have the best view of the ongoing situation.
     
    #180

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