Rooney Rule!!!

[AKCJ]

I don't think this is about board room racism, other than maybe historically players thought I that they wouldn't get a job in management, so didn't take it up as a career and now it's become rather a self fulling prophecy. There should definitely be more black managers at league clubs, but maybe more effort should be put into getting more black players to take their coaching badges, so that club owners have more options to choose from. I suspect that being forced to interview at least one black candidate will be scoffed at by most chairmen and might even make them less likely to take on a black manager. There's some stubborn old duffers out there.

Did anyone see Goals on Sunday yesterday?

Les Ferdinand was on there talking about this issue and he was saying how he knows black footballers who have retired from the game and just not bothered with coaching badges because they know their options are limited.

Perhaps it is this misconception that leades them to believe there is no place for them in management/coaching?

Food for thought.

 

[Foxello]

In which case, this rule would do just the trick and encourage more black players to go into coaching.....no? If they know they have no chance of getting a job, why would they bother working for their badges?

 

[Proud Fox]

Did anyone see Goals on Sunday yesterday?

Les Ferdinand was on there talking about this issue and he was saying how he knows black footballers who have retired from the game and just not bothered with coaching badges because they know their options are limited.

Perhaps it is this misconception that leades them to believe there is no place for them in management/coaching?

Food for thought.

If they give up before they start then they will never get a chance

Chris Powell, Chris Houghton, Paul Ince and the late Keith Alexander all have been managers In Recent times because they have gone the right way about it

Ince started at the bottom and worked his way up while Houghton and Powell was coaches before getting their chance

Clubs don't decide their manager by if their black or White, English or foreign

They pick who they believe is the best man for the job

 

[LeicesterWizard]

They pick who they believe is the best man for the job

Definatly the case with Powell atm, 2nd in league 1! really want them to come up with either Dons or Wednesday, or both

 

[Greatness_Since_1884]

They might have an easier job if any black managers had actually been successful, Gullit was half decent when he started at Chelsea, but has been rubbish everywhere else and has been sacked by every single club he's managed. John Barnes was completely hopeless, Ince started off okay in the lower leagues, but was found out at a higher level and having returned to the lower leagues he couldn't regain the success he showed at the start. Chris Powell seems to be doing okay at Charlton, but it's League One and he's just getting going. Chris Hughton did a decent job at Newcastle and was unlucky to be binned, things haven't started so well at Birmingham, but again it's early days.

There must have been some successful black managers somewhere in the world, though I'm having trouble thinking of a single one?

I think it's too early to include Powell and Houghton in that category as their careers have been short ones. The only other two I can think of are Hope Powell who's done a good job with the England women and Noel Blake who got England U19 to the Euro semi-final in 2010. Other than that, you're right. Can't think of many more.

 

[leicester_ed]

was jean tigana?

 

[foxaway]

Surely it will just mean that a club without a manager has to interview a "token" black man which makes a mockery of any recruitment process. The club will have a shortlist of candidates and just think "we need to interview a black man to appease the league" and just call anyone in without taking it fully seriously.

 

[Proud Fox]

Well how is the black man going to feel in the interview. The club dont want him and he probaly knows it. Ge is only getting interviewed because they have to do it. He will get rejected Before he even arrives for the interview and his application wont go anywhere.

Isnt that going to put them even further off going into management

Say Fergie left Man U tommorow and because of the Rooney rule they have to interview a black manager. Who would they do. Someone like Chris Powell or Paul Ince. Some who isnt up to the job and isnt ready for that league. What a bloody waste of time it wouod be for everyone

 

[glynnak]

are there any statistics that tell us how many black or asian or even chinese people have applied for manager positions with english league clubs but havnt been interviewed?
without this information and also how many white people have suffered a similar experience the whole discussion is pointless.
You dont see many female lorry drivers or bricklayers but that doesnt mean that thousands of ladies applied but were not interviewed--they just didnt apply.

on the other side of the coin there seems to be a disproportionate number of black players as opposed to white if black people only constitute 4% of the population (source - radio leicester this week when discussing the stop and search statistics)

 

[StourbridgeFox]

In recent times, I've thought of football as a paragon of virtue in regards to racism.

On the pitch, if you are good enough then you will be played. It is a cut-throat professional sport and there is no room for anything which detracts from making good judgements about players and teams.

I would've thought the same would go for selecting managers. But...then why the discrepancy between the disproportionately high amount of black players in professional football compared with the disproportionately low amount of players going on to become managers?

The idea of racism in the boardroom makes me very uncomfortable. This of course does not mean it isn't true. But for some reason it does not feel like the whole explanation.

There are cultural reasons why a disproportionally high amount of black kids go on to be professional footballers, and there might be genetic reasons too? Are there genetic reasons why black people would not make good managers? This is a very controversial thing to say. It also probably isn't true.

So for me, a critical mass of a small amount of racism, plus an inflated expectation of racism, leads to a situation where black players do not apply for managers jobs because they do not expect to get them. Any rejection of black candidates could lead to further inflated perceptions of black people's lack of chance of getting a job in management.

Just my musings on the subject.

 

[BigFox]

So for me, a critical mass of a small amount of racism, plus an inflated expectation of racism, leads to a situation where black players do not apply for managers jobs because they do not expect to get them. Any rejection of black candidates could lead to further inflated perceptions of black people's lack of chance of getting a job in management.

That is the situation exactly - some black managers were discriminated against so all the potential managers don't bother getting their badges and applying for jobs.

There are cultural reasons why a disproportionally high amount of black kids go on to be professional footballers, and there might be genetic reasons too? Are there genetic reasons why black people would not make good managers? This is a very controversial thing to say. It also probably isn't true.

Are you are saying that black people are inferior in some way so cannot function as managers? If I was black I would be raging at this.

 

[leicester_ed]

^ i dont think he is saying there is- i studied A Level religion and that is the exact kind of argument we would discuss in the curriculum.

 

[Burmesefox]

In recent times, I've thought of football as a paragon of virtue in regards to racism.

On the pitch, if you are good enough then you will be played. It is a cut-throat professional sport and there is no room for anything which detracts from making good judgements about players and teams.

I would've thought the same would go for selecting managers. But...then why the discrepancy between the disproportionately high amount of black players in professional football compared with the disproportionately low amount of players going on to become managers?

The idea of racism in the boardroom makes me very uncomfortable. This of course does not mean it isn't true. But for some reason it does not feel like the whole explanation.

There are cultural reasons why a disproportionally high amount of black kids go on to be professional footballers, and there might be genetic reasons too? Are there genetic reasons why black people would not make good managers? This is a very controversial thing to say. It also probably isn't true.

So for me, a critical mass of a small amount of racism, plus an inflated expectation of racism, leads to a situation where black players do not apply for managers jobs because they do not expect to get them. Any rejection of black candidates could lead to further inflated perceptions of black people's lack of chance of getting a job in management.

Just my musings on the subject.

Good points. I do believe there is racism at the top in the sense that owners will regard black players as being great as front line soldiers and cannon fodder but no good as the generals. We need to encourage black role models in society and managers are positive role models whereas footballers are (by many) considered over paid prima donnas. As pointed out earlier - clubs aren't being forced to offer these chaps jobs just open the door to them. If the rule introduces a few more black managers this will encourage more to consider a future in management and hopefully lead to more even playing field.

 

[Burmesefox]

Well how is the black man going to feel in the interview. The club dont want him and he probaly knows it. Ge is only getting interviewed because they have to do it. He will get rejected Before he even arrives for the interview and his application wont go anywhere.

Isnt that going to put them even further off going into management

Say Fergie left Man U tommorow and because of the Rooney rule they have to interview a black manager. Who would they do. Someone like Chris Powell or Paul Ince. Some who isnt up to the job and isnt ready for that league. What a bloody waste of time it wouod be for everyone

On a micro level maybe (although the interviewee would be gaining very valuable interview experience at the top) but on a macro level this works in that it is opening the door and owners will be given enforced access to people they may have previously considered unsuitable based on the grounds of prejudice and ignorance. I'm not some do gooder champion of equal rights but the imbalance of black players vs black managers is shockingly huge and odes need some addressing.