Rocket for Levy please!

[NSIS]

Can't disagree entirely. Although kuyt was a very good player back then. One we were connected to. I still think that Suarez is a fantastic striker, it's just a shame about his other little " faults" Heitinga is a damn good defender - good enough for the Dutch national team.
Vega was a big mistake, but hardly player of the year material. Rocha was never meant as anything bu a stop- gap.
This has obviously been carefully researched as we've identified Vertonghen as one of our top targets. I think it would be folly to let him walk off to the Goons for the sake of Levy's pride.
There were reports yesterday that a fee had been agreed, and that all that was being discussed now was the payment schedule. Hopefully, this has some truth to it!

 

[notsosmartspur]

For me, there's a difference between bartering, and cutting your nose off to spite your face. Sure, try and bargain, but if it becomes clear that they're not going o move, you're left with two choices. Pay up, or walk away. For the relatively small difference being asked in this case, I would prefer that we pay up, rather than let another top target slip through our fingers.

This is how ManC and Chelsea approach transfers, they go into it knowing they've got financial leeway, we do not have that luxury, I think you're being a bit too simplistic here, its not like buying a pair of socks mate.

 

[NSIS]

This is how ManC and Chelsea approach transfers, they go into it knowing they've got financial leeway, we do not have that luxury, I think you're being a bit too simplistic here, its not like buying a pair of socks mate.

What's complicated about it? We want the player. The player wants to come. We try to negotiate a price that suits us. If we can't, we have two choices. Pay up, or walk away. My contention is that, in the grand scheme of things, we are talking about a minimal amount of money for a player who is, allegedly top of our wanted list, and could make a big difference between us being in the CL next year, or not.

 

[NSIS]

Players mentioned like Kuyt and Heitinga and fairly well established as reasonably good and reliable PL players. Vertonghen is an unknown quantity. Ajax are moderate at best by European standards; he hasn't been tested in a competitive league. But if a PL comes calling, the price goes up. Do you want Levy held to ransom for this player now Ajax know there are other possible suitors?

Well established Premiership players, both from which league?? Ajax may, nowadays, not be the force they once were. However, they are still a very decent side, and have developed more top young talent than just about any other club. Of course there is always a risk in bringing any foreign player to the Premiership. Some adapt, some don't . Does that mean that a premiership teams are going to stop buying foreign players? No, it doesn't.

 

[lennypops]

Well established Premiership players, both from which league?? Ajax may, nowadays, not be the force they once were. However, they are still a very decent side, and have developed more top young talent than just about any other club. Of course there is always a risk in bringing any foreign player to the Premiership. Some adapt, some don't . Does that mean that a premiership teams are going to stop buying foreign players? No, it doesn't.

They want to buy foreign players cos they're cheaper than players from the Prem. And £12m with only a year left - well that's absolutely premium price even for a player in the Prem. Take a top CB. Someone like Kompany or Vidic. £12m for them when you could have them on a free in six months is still quite a lot.

The selling point of buying from abroad is that the talent pool is bigger and, more importantly, it's cheaper. Prem teams would soon stop buying from abroad if fees like £12m for a CB who's out of contract in a year become the norm.

Imagine if someone came in for Kaboul and he only had 12months on his contract left. If he'd said in the press that he wanted to go and we've made it clear that we'd sell and we then got £12m for him we'd all be saying "What a great deal Levy's pulled off for the club! Incredible". And we're not a team from a league which, frankly, has a fraction of the financial muscle of the Prem. Ajax are being pretty extortionate over this fee.

 

[Billy The Spur]

Vertonghen looks a quality player here (only youtube I know) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgFKV6sfhPs but he appears good in the tackle, good in the air, able to carry a ball at pace out of defence and pass it with confidence.

Add to that his versatility playing anywhere in the back 4 and also in midfield, he seems to have all the attributes of a complete centre half.

 

[NSIS]

They want to buy foreign players cos they're cheaper than players from the Prem. And £12m with only a year left - well that's absolutely premium price even for a player in the Prem. Take a top CB. Someone like Kompany or Vidic. £12m for them when you could have them on a free in six months is still quite a lot.

The selling point of buying from abroad is that the talent pool is bigger and, more importantly, it's cheaper. Prem teams would soon stop buying from abroad if fees like £12m for a CB who's out of contract in a year become the norm.

Imagine if someone came in for Kaboul and he only had 12months on his contract left. If he'd said in the press that he wanted to go and we've made it clear that we'd sell and we then got £12m for him we'd all be saying "What a great deal Levy's pulled off for the club! Incredible". And we're not a team from a league which, frankly, has a fraction of the financial muscle of the Prem. Ajax are being pretty extortionate over this fee.

Once again, that's hardly the point. We have identified Vertonghen as our top target. He wants to join us. We are already prepared to pay, what could be considered a lot for a player with one year left of his contract. Now, we are haggling over a relatively small amount. Again, if Ajax refuse to move, Levy has two choices - pay up, or walk away. My feeling is that for the relatively small amount in question, and to get a player we really want, we should, in this case, pay up if necessary.

 

[NSIS]

NSIS, I meant if you went for Heitinga now, you'd know what you were getting. Not so with Vertonghen and I think Levy has shown that he is not prepared to pay more than he believes the player is worth. If the price is £12M or more, then it's more than I would think he wants to pay.

I'm sure he's been as well scouted as possible, Luke. £12mil may seem excessive. However, we are already prepared to pay very close to the asking price. If we really want the player, then Levy may have a decision to make.
As for being more than Levy wants to pay, he always haggles.

 

[lennypops]

Once again, that's hardly the point. We have identified Vertonghen as our top target. He wants to join us. We are already prepared to pay, what could be considered a lot for a player with one year left of his contract. Now, we are haggling over a relatively small amount. Again, if Ajax refuse to move, Levy has two choices - pay up, or walk away. My feeling is that for the relatively small amount in question, and to get a player we really want, we should, in this case, pay up if necessary.

But we've identified him as our top target at a price. I mean Kompany'd be a better target, wouldn't he? Trouble is that his price would be huge. So he's not our top target. (How, by the way, do any of us know that Vertonghen is our top target? This is just stuff thrown up by the papers isn't it?).

Vertonghen at £7-9m might be our top target. Vertonghen at £12m might not be. I know you can say "Oh - it's just a couple of million. But that's a dangerous path to go down too often. Those couple of millions soon add up.

I also wonder how much we actually know about what's really going on. People are saying that we're "haggling over a relatively small amount" but are we? How do you know? Papers say that but we have to realise that we really know barely anything about the negotiations between the two clubs. Papers can't be trusted - I bet they know barely anything either.

 

[NSIS]

Pretty much the same price, and the same difference in valuation has been mentioned by just about every source. So, I think it's fair to assume that it's not exactly a million miles away from reality.
Vertonghen was quoted as a up top target by Redknapp. He seems on the face of it, a top class centre back, I'm sure we've done our homework, scouting wise.
Yes, a couple of million is a lot of money, in most contexts. In this one, it's relatively little, however. If a couple of million is the price between us making the CL next year, and not, then it's peanuts.
I hope, and think, that the deal will be done anyway. But, if it does fall apart over such a relatively small differential, and we have to watch Vertonghen waltz off to play for The Goons, then I will be far from the only supporter who will be mightily pissed off!

 

[KingHotspur]

I have faith in Levy. In my opinion Ajax are taking the piss by asking so much for a defender with just a year left on his contract.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Quote Originally Posted by notsosmartspur View Post
This is how ManC and Chelsea approach transfers, they go into it knowing they've got financial leeway, we do not have that luxury, I think you're being a bit too simplistic here, its not like buying a pair of socks mate.

What's complicated about it? We want the player. The player wants to come. We try to negotiate a price that suits us. If we can't, we have two choices. Pay up, or walk away. My contention is that, in the grand scheme of things, we are talking about a minimal amount of money for a player who is, allegedly top of our wanted list, and could make a big difference between us being in the CL next year, or not.

....Leeds United!

 

[NSIS]

....Leeds United!

Oh, come on! I'm hardly advocating going down that path. However, I think Leeds went broke for a tad more than a couple of million Euros. As I have said, if it's the difference between CL football, and none, then it's peanuts anyway.

 

[NSIS]

NSIS, if Levy was convinced that Vertonghen was a risk free investment at £12M and represented value for money, he'd have signed him by now. Perhaps he's not convinced that he's value for money at that price given that he's unproven in the PL, other major leagues and CL. However good a job scouts do, they can't say how he'll adapt the physicality of our league and the need to perform consistently week in, week out. He may do well, but £12M still represents a big gamble. Cahill looks a snip at £7M by comparison.

Oh, come on, Luke. According to Levy, nobody is value for money at the asking price. Secondly, as I know from the business I used to work in, there's no such thing as a risk free investment!
I agree that the asking price is high. But, once again, if Ajax will not move ( and we don't know that for sure) then it's simple, you either pay up, or walk away. If they 100% will not move, it may well be because they know they have a back up offer from another club. Which makes it even more complicated.
Again, my contention is, that for the relatively small sum involved, if we really are that keen on Vertonghen, let's pay up and get the deal done. I'm sure Levy can just adjust the payment schedule to spread it out over a few seasons.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Oh, come on! I'm hardly advocating going down that path. However, I think Leeds went broke for a tad more than a couple of million Euros. As I have said, if it's the difference between CL football, and none, then it's peanuts anyway.

Agreed NSIS, I was being overly sarcastic! If it really came down to being as simplistic as that, I'm sure we or anyone else would pay it mate, I can't tell you why its taking a little longer (too many reasons!)....or is it?...TW's not open yet! so I think by our usual standards of last day madness, I'm quite happy.

 

[NSIS]

Agreed NSIS, I was being overly sarcastic! If it really came down to being as simplistic as that, I'm sure we or anyone else would pay it mate, I can't tell you why its taking a little longer (too many reasons!)....or is it?...TW's not open yet! so I think by our usual standards of last day madness, I'm quite happy.

Yeah, I hope it will get done. There were suggestions yesterday that he deal was done and that all that was being discussed was the payment schedule. Not sure if there's any truth in it, but let's hope so. It would be nice to get a few of our targets in early for a change. Get them settled in, training with the squad, and redy for the new season. Instead of the usual last minute panic. Levy's like one of those old granny's who wait outside Harrods on the last day of the sale, ready to dash through the store and grab the last minute bargain.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Levy's like one of those old granny's who wait outside Harrods on the last day of the sale, ready to dash through the store and grab the last minute bargain.

....I know he can be a pain, but he's not that bad, you could say he's the reason we've got any money to spend in the first place.

 

[Spurlock]

i enjoyed reading this debate between NSIS and Notso.

i initially stated that we should purchase our man...and having thought about it i still think we should.

i understand Notso's thinking as he doesnt think we should be held to ransom...however i just find this almost hypocritical of Levy considering that he refuses to sell our deadwood who havent hardly kicked a ball in anger for a season or more...for nothing less than a profit on what we purchased them yet..he expects to sign the captain and player of the year for a very decent club for absolute peanuts.

yes his contract is running down but he is a massive player for them and i can understand that they want 12 million for him..which is an absolute steal from an Ajax point of view for someone so important....we sold Berba for £31 million because Levy was not happy with the 28 offered...fair play and good for our club....but he always wants to have the final say and sometimes it wont happen that way and this maybe one of them moments.

paying an extra 2 million is actually not much in the grand scheme of things....and Levy should swallow his pride and find a middle path if nothing else..because Levy didnt mind blowing 16 million more than neccessery on Bentley and Bent..and we survived...and it didnt stop us signing big players after that..so i dont think because once in our lives we end up paying a few mill more for a player we crave that we will end up doing a Leeds like a few on here suggested.

I understand that Notso doesnt want the club to pay over the odds but i personally dont want to be looking back in mid october,November when the PL is settling down and find ourselves off the pace due to some defensive frailites( as i deem this to be our weakest cog in the team) and be cursing the moment we tried to get too clever for our boots and lost out in attempt to try to get a very important player off a big club for peanuts.


Vertognen is not the first risk...every player everyone purchases is a risk.....just ask chelsea and the 50 mill they spent on Toress or the 35 mill Liverpool spent on Carroll.....and i feel more confident that Vertognen would be a bigger success relative to his price tag than either of these two..at a price of 12 million at most...it is nothing in the grand scheme of things if we have true aspirations....because im afraid if we baulk at such deals regardless of the remaining length of his contract etc then where do we look for players? below this we are looking for hidden gems..i dont have confidence that we do hidden gems very well...12 million in todays climate is a very decent price for a player of Vertognen's potential.


Eden Hazard however is a total bellend slag..who i am glad we cant afford to pay for even if we wanted..what a disgusting person......i hope whoever signs him is happy that they got a player who has made it obvious it is all about the money....cant be anything else..if he wants guaranteed football then he would look at clubs like us and Arsenal..if he almost wants guaranteed success then for me there is no bigger team than United..but since i want lotsa money..give me City and chelsea any day...City out of the 2 because they will be winning trophies regularly i suspect...but this was a side note..its all about Vertognen.

 

[Billy The Spur]

I prefer Levy`s way of transfer negotiating even if it is a little drawn out and a hard driven bargain, I mean we can all remember the days of Comolli when millions were wasted..... sure he got deals done, but half of them were over priced and over rated.

I am frustrated like most Spurs fans but I trust Levy to do the right thing for Tottenham.

 

[C.CalderwoodDivingHeader]

I've seen quite a bit of Ajax this season and trust me when I say this guy is a class act (I know, weaker league etc. but it's still extremely noticeable). Levy is trying to get us the best possible deal, and I trust him to do so, but we can't afford to let this player slip away into Arsenal's, or anybody else's, grasp. It's dragging on longer than an Eastenders story-line, but as long as it gets resolved I'll be delighted!

A Kaboul + Vertonghen partnership really would be potentially very special; not to mention Dawson and Caulker (bar another loan move) in reserve.