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I don't think anyone realistically expected us to win the title this season.

Next season we will (expect that) though, yes.

Arsenal, in the meantime, will once again aim for fourth.
 
Chief said:
I don't think anyone realistically expected us to win the title this season.

Next season we will (expect that) though, yes.

Arsenal, in the meantime, will once again aim for fourth.
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Totally agree. With a successful Summer window and a good pre-season (no Euros, no WC - so good for everyone but the fans) we should be in good shape to mount a serious challenge next season. JM's rhetoric at the start of the season about us being in with a shout of the title was more about lifting the fans after three dull years rather than realistic expectation.

Next season needs to be different. It will be JM's own squad and the players will be accustomed to playing his way - so no excuses really.
 
Christiansmith said:
The RS <laugh> <laugh>

[HASHTAG]#kloppyflop[/HASHTAG] [HASHTAG]#fraud[/HASHTAG] is being found out. I said when he was appointed that all the excitement was premature. He had a nice way with fans and the press. But his high intensity high energy game will last only until teams work out how to neutralise it. There is no substitute for player quality. If your squad is mediocre it will not be long before it got found out.

The RS: out of EFL, of FA Cup, of Top 4. Not even in Europe this season. A season which started with some RS fans openly talking of the title is now turning into a real nightmare.

On current form, the RS will not only slide out of top 4 but out of top 6 as rampant Everton are scoring for fun. Their fans used to laugh at Lukaku but they are not laughing now as they realise that a Lukaku or Benteke could have rescued them on so many occasions as a Plan B. <laugh>
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I think you'll find their Plan B is change manager <whistle>
 
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Chief said:
I don't think anyone realistically expected us to win the title this season.

Next season we will (expect that) though, yes.

Arsenal, in the meantime, will once again aim for fourth.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I thought we would be challenging for the title prior to the start of the season.

My reasoning was:

Stable clubs/managers
Leicester - would not challenge again and would struggle with CL football on the cards as well as PL. (Correct)

Arsenal - will never win the title with Wenger in charge, it will be more of the same.
Good start, pretty football, not strengthening the positions they need to, get injuries, fall apart in Feb and finish in the CL spots. (Correct so far)

Spurs - Good squad but unlikely to challenge for the title unless their key players have another great season, most likely fight for top 4 at best. (Correct so far)

Clubs with new managers
OK so there were many of these, all with good managers.

Chelsea - Had a terrible previous season so I doubted they'd bounce back to challenge, I thought they'd fight for 3rd/4th.
Manager is brand new to PL so thought he would need to adapt the most, along with Pep. (Got this HORRIBLY wrong).

Liverpool - Some good players but on the whole squad is not that strong compared to the other big clubs.
Klopp is a very good manager, I thought he'd need to keep adapting to the PL but Bundesliga is more similar that La Liga/Serie A so I thought he'd be OK.
I thought they'd fight for 4th. (Correct so far given the current form)

City - Probably the best squad in the league, certainly the best attackers imo.
Pep is a very good manager but brand new to PL, I hoped that he would adapt and for his first season at least I thought Mourinho would have the upper hand over them. I expected them to challenge us for the title but I thought we'd come out on top. (Correct so far, he seems to still be coming to terms with the intensity of the PL).

United - Good squad, and with Mourinho a big improvement on LVG and Moyes as well as being very experienced in the PL I had high hopes.
He always seems to improve a team defensively so I thought we'd have the best defence this year, we already have the best GK so if he could sort out our back 4 and central midfield to work as a unit we'd be golden, assuming we still attack and score goals and not play defensive football. (Not going as well as I'd hoped but our defence is decent and we show attacking intent (unlike under LVG), the execution just hasn't been there).

Before the season started I thought it would finish:
1. United (fight for 1st)
2. City (fight for 1st)
3. Chelsea (fight for 3rd)
4. Arsenal (fight for 3rd)
5. Liverpool (fight for 5th)
6. Spurs (fight for 5th)

On the whole I think Conte/Chelsea have just done really well and Conte adapted way better than I expected. I think all other big clubs with new managers are still finding their feet, and Arsenal/Spurs are just being themselves.
 
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@ArtisanWenger Pep is crap and overrated. Sure he's a top coach but he's not that great. No where near the league of Slur Alex and i would argue worse than Mourinho (in his prime)
 
BobbyD said:
@ArtisanWenger Pep is crap and overrated. Sure he's a top coach but he's not that great. No where near the league of Slur Alex and i would argue worse than Mourinho (in his prime)
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When cooing for Jose please do remember besides his cl success with inter and massive porto success everywhere..He came to chelsea when they had the best squad in the world in the first stint and every challenger was in transition and due to results got out,Real Madrid too he lost the dressing room and got out after a single la liga in three seasons and no cl final got kicked out while that team has now won 2 cls in three seasons,his 2nd stint also ended in extaordinary disaster.

Please do take this into account, everyone sweeps them away.

And Pep is still doing better with a squad of lower value to Jose in the league.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
ArtisanWenger said:
When cooing for Jose please do remember besides his cl success with inter and massive porto success everywhere..He came to chelsea when they had the best squad in the world in the first stint and every challenger was in transition and due to results got out,Real Madrid too he lost the dressing room and got out after a single la liga in three seasons and no cl final got kicked out while that team has now won 2 cls in three seasons,his 2nd stint also ended in extaordinary disaster.

Please do take this into account, everyone sweeps them away.

And Pep is still doing better with a squad of lower value to Jose in the league.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Do remember that Jose did it at many teams with far smaller budgets, Inter who beat peps barca, porto which was a fairy tale for that club and has won leagues all over europe ;).

Firstly your point about having the best squad with chelsea At the time, the only well known players were , not even sure you could say that. How many world class players did we even have? With hindsight, you could say a lot of great players in drogba, carvalho, Robben but this lot were bought from unproven leagues but with good reputations and it's only in hindsight how good they are (or you could argue through Joses development). To argue against this is to say Pep had legendary players in Iniesta, Xavi and Messi.

He won the league with chelsea in his first 2 season (after smashing it at porto) and to say Arsenals squad was in transition is a joke. They had just stormed the league finished their invincibles season. United you could argue were in transition but even in 2005/2006 they had ronaldo who was another year older along with Van nistelrooy, Scholes Ferdinand etc etc. Hardly a team in transition

As for not finishing in the CL final with Real, he made 3 semis which was a failure in most peoples books. This from a real side (he had some great players he bought) that hadn't won a league in 2 seasons and won the CL in a decade. This compared to Peps Bayern who had just smashed everyone aside in the CL and Bundesliga who couldn't even make a final (i.e. pep should be a failure). Munichs dominance in the league was further enhance as they just kept buying all of dortmunds best players which you don't see in either la liga or epl.

As for Jose leaving the team in disarray, how can you leave in disarray when you have just won la liga. I suppose Pep left the Barca team in disarray, as after he left (losing out to Jose in la liga) Barca went onto to do crap for the next few seasons. Funnily enough, with a proper manager again they went onto dominate la liga and absolutely smashed the champions league in 2014/2015.

The only black mark is Jose had an absolute meltdown in Chelseas 2nd season even though he once again won another league. Time will tell how well Pep does having had everything handed on a plate to him.
 
BobbyD said:
Do remember that Jose did it at many teams with far smaller budgets, Inter who beat peps barca, porto which was a fairy tale for that club and has won leagues all over europe ;).

Firstly your point about having the best squad with chelsea At the time, the only well known players were , not even sure you could say that. How many world class players did we even have? With hindsight, you could say a lot of great players in drogba, carvalho, Robben but this lot were bought from unproven leagues but with good reputations and it's only in hindsight how good they are (or you could argue through Joses development). To argue against this is to say Pep had legendary players in Iniesta, Xavi and Messi.

He won the league with chelsea in his first 2 season (after smashing it at porto) and to say Arsenals squad was in transition is a joke. They had just stormed the league finished their invincibles season. United you could argue were in transition but even in 2005/2006 they had ronaldo who was another year older along with Van nistelrooy, Scholes Ferdinand etc etc. Hardly a team in transition

As for not finishing in the CL final with Real, he made 3 semis which was a failure in most peoples books. This from a real side (he had some great players he bought) that hadn't won a league in 2 seasons and won the CL in a decade. This compared to Peps Bayern who had just smashed everyone aside in the CL and Bundesliga who couldn't even make a final (i.e. pep should be a failure). Munichs dominance in the league was further enhance as they just kept buying all of dortmunds best players which you don't see in either la liga or epl.

As for Jose leaving the team in disarray, how can you leave in disarray when you have just won la liga. I suppose Pep left the Barca team in disarray, as after he left (losing out to Jose in la liga) Barca went onto to do crap for the next few seasons. Funnily enough, with a proper manager again they went onto dominate la liga and absolutely smashed the champions league in 2014/2015.

The only black mark is Jose had an absolute meltdown in Chelseas 2nd season even though he once again won another league. Time will tell how well Pep does having had everything handed on a plate to him.
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I already felicitated Joses inter cl success and all over success with porto.

Thats super cool,ignore tha guys who spends the most money in the world and gathers his team and blame the guy who created his,iniesta and xavi never played together pre pep,whil xavi did,deco was the main man.

He had the balls to sell 2 time ballon dor winner ronaldinho in his prime and build a way of football,he set the era for the barca dominance that they are still enjoying to this day

Please check your facts,pep had left after a copa del rey win while jose left after being trophyless.

Do you know how bad that ronaldo was?That united team was finishing fourth,how many united teams finished fourth after fergie started winning the title,chelsea basically were using other clubs as scouts and outpricing them everywhere,theywere the only team in the world to have 2 options for every position at that time.He left chelsea in disarry twice,same with real madrid.

Thing os if jose had lost to barca the only team with a better first team than him in semis every season fine but he lost to different teams for 3 seasons...so he doesnt have a place to hide..and Pep tactically and technically improved bayern to a whole new level which their fans and players attest to after he is gone.
 
ArtisanWenger said:
I alreqdy felicitated Joses inter cl success and all over success with porto.

Thats super cool,ignore tha guys who spends the most money in the world and gathers his team and blame the guy who created his,iniesta and xavi never played together pre pep,whil xavi did,deco was the main man.

He had the balls to sell 2 time ballon dor winner ronaldinho in his prime and build a way of football,he set the era for the barca dominance that they are still enjoying to this day

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Have to disagree, the tiki taka style after Pep left was worked out and barca went ****. Enrique has come in and dismantled tiki taka and now Barca are successful if i was being one sided

As for balls to sell Ronaldinho, arguable he was in his prime as he got fat and no other top club wanted him so he went to Milan (City offered but they were **** then and under mark hughes). Jose on the other hand got rid of Ibrahimovic an absolute legend and key player to the inter team. He then went onto win the treble with Inter who had never ever made a mark in the CL before.

Mourinho spends a lot of money, but what do you mean created his, half the players at Barca were already very good before he went there? Pep took them to another level and could argue he developed Iniesta, Xavi and Messi? You could say the same to Mourinho who "developed" Joe Cole, Carvalho, Deco, Higuain etc (who were no marks).
 
You really dont get your facts straight thinking jose left after a la liga win previously,he didnt get rid of ibra he did everything to keep him but that guy was intent on joining what was being recognized as the best club team of all time,they still won with tiki taka for another season after whoch enrique dismantled it,there was no manager to carry it out properly with vilanovas unpreventable death and dont forget its with peps style and thay spain ruled for more than half a decade too..and you also do know thatbbarca were trophyless for multiple seasons when pep took over and there were no strong teams in the league except real and barca were finishing fourth so that why i say he created a very dominant cycle that has helped them go from level to level.His was the most successful period in barcelona history,he is the manager with most trophies for them.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
Developped?Jose developped nothing he would only use players in their prime,he used to marginalize joes cole.

His chelsea squad was full of big buys in their 24s to 28s

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ArtisanWenger said:
You really dont get your facts straight thinking jose left after a la liga win previously,he didnt get rid of ibra he did everything to keep him but that guy was intent on joining what was being recognized as the best club team of all time,they still won with tiki taka for another season after whoch enrique dismantled it,there was no manager to carry it out properly with vilanovas unpreventable death and dont forget its with peps style and thay spain ruled for more than half a decade too..and you also do know thatbbarca were trophyless for multiple seasons when pep took over and there were no strong teams in the league except real and barca were finishing fourth so that why i say he created a very dominant cycle that has helped them go from level to level.His was the most successful period in barcelona history,he is the manager with most trophies for them.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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think you aren't getting your facts straight.

One got rid of an aging ronaldino (akin to ditching Rooney right now as he's past it) and one had ibra gone (whether he wanted to or not) and still went onto win the treble.

As for Pep creating spain, you realise Pep joined barca 2008 - 2009 and that Spain won their first Euros in 2008, so were successful prior to Pep.

As for Barca having not won anything, they won a treble in 2006, 3 years prior to Pep join (so 2 blank seasons), whereas Real hadn't won the league 3 years prior to Mourinho (so 2 year of blanks) as well as no CL trophy for 9 years i.e. they were far more trophyless than Peps barca that he picked up.

As for Enriques first season, he didn't use tiki taka. Of course he kept possession but he changed the plan not to dominate games but get the ball quickly to suarez messi and neymar and absolutely destroyed Peps Tiki taka Bayern using the same tactics Heynckes Bayern deployed against Tiki Taka Barca (legacy of pep)

Lastly, Barca finished 3rd when Pep took over not 4th.

Any other alternative facts you want to throw out?
 
ArtisanWenger said:
Developped?Jose developped nothing he would only use players in their prime,he used to marginalize joes cole.

His chelsea squad was full of big buys in their 24s to 28s

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Who has Pep developed? Only ones off the top of my head was Tiago Alacantra and Pedro. Everyone else he has had were already developed and good to great players. If you are going for Pep took to a new level, we could say the same for Jose.
 
Again he didnt get rid of ibra,ibra wanted to go as barca were after him god god,this is going nowhere

So the greater mourinhi with a costlier squad and more experience should finish above city right?

I bet that pep will finish in the top 4 and above jose, wait and watch

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ArtisanWenger said:
Again he didnt get rid of ibra,ibra wanted to go as barca were after him god god,this is going nowhere

So the greater mourinhi with a costlier squad and more experience should finish above city right?

I bet that pep will finish in the top 4 and above jose, wait and watch

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Whether Ibra left of his own accord or Jose got rid, he still 'rebuilt' Inter to win a champions league. And again getting rid of a fat ronaldinho was easy, he was going downhill like Rooney although they should have got rid of Rooney. Hell you could say mourinho let adriano go for free that season too.

I happen to think Mourinho has lost it recently, so no i'm not saying he would finish above city right now. I also think City have the better players regardless of how much United team cost.

Just saying Pep is nothing special. Yes he's been pretty good, but a good Roberto Mancini shall we say, someone who has had his teams handed to him on a plate. Now he has to rebuild one lets see what he gets up to.
 
OPTA stats:

54 - Jürgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his opening 54 Premier League games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12). Mirror.

After all the jiizzing and fawning over [HASHTAG]#kloppyflop[/HASHTAG] he is no better than the manager they so despised and couldn't wait to get rid of. <laugh>
 
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