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RobSpur said:
Would cutting off his genitals really be suitable punishment ?

There was a case a few years ago in south africa, where a guy killed someone with an axe, and claimed to have done it because the guy he killed had raped his daughter and infected her with AIDS. It turned out to be bollocks, but I think many would have supported him if it had turned out to be true, and I think I would have done too.

But is what Johnson did, remotely similar to that ?

Not in my view.

My understanding of what happened is this :

1. A physically mature 15 year old girl, was besotted with Adam Johnson.
2. She contacted him via facebook.
3. They exchanged a protracted series of messages which amounted to heavy flirting (because of the girl's age, the flirting is deemed to be 'grooming' on johnson's part).
4. They agreed to meet up, on the premise of Johnson giving her a shirt.
5. After the meeting, they continued flirting/grooming, and Johnson said he wanted a kiss, and possibly to touch the girl up.
6. The girl's parents knew of the budding 'relationship', and allowed their daughter to continue with it.
7. The two lovebirds met up again, and Johnson asked the girl if there was somewhere more private they could go. The girl told him somewhere, and they went and 'made out'.
8. They continued flirting by text afterwards.
9. The parents still did not intervene.
10. The girl told friends at school, that she had made out with adam johnson.
11. She comtacted another footballer that she apparantly also fancied, via facebook.
12. She became upset that her friends didnt believe she had made out with Johnson, and she became angry with johnson for not disclosing their 'relationship'.
13. The girl's mother insisted that the police were involved.
14. Sunderland fans then began threatening the girl, and she appears to have gone through a lot of very serious stress etc as a result.


But what has Johnson done ? :

a) flirted with/ 'groomed' a physically mature 15 year old girl, who was besotted by him. (which obviously was inappropriate on his part)
b) kissed the girl, and put his hand down her jeans, with her 'consent' (again inappropriate on his part)
c) denied he kissed her when she told her friends (dont blame him tbh)


Admittedly, a 27 or whatever year old guy kissing an albeit physically mature 15 year old, is not really acceptable, but on the basis that :

- it was probably exactly the encounter the girl had sought when she approached him
- the parents apparently knew and did not object

I don't see how the parents can then turn round and say they want to cut the guy's bollocks off.

In fact, to me, a 6 year prison sentence, whilst being labelled a 'nonce', is totally disproportionate. And that's without comparing it to other offences such as those mentioned above. The guy was obviously an arrogant prick, who needed to reset his sexual radar a bit. But his life has been utterly and irreovcably ruined. And that doesn't fit the crime. Imo.

So far as I can see, the actual harm that has come to the girl, wasn't directly caused by Johnson at all (although without him of course, none of it would have happened), but due to the prosecution and publication of the incident as a crime. That doesn't excuse Johnson, but imo it casts substantial doubt on whether society as a whole is treating such issues in the right way.

Ideally the incident wouldnt have happened at all. But the next best scenario for those involved would have been for the girl to accept and live with the fact, that her friends didnt believe she'd pulled a footballer. What actually happened instead, to both of them was far, far worse. And to me, there's something extremely peverse, about a society that hugely exaccerbates the suffering of a victim, just so that it can take revenge on the perpitrator.

And that's one of the very good reasons, why the judiciary needs to apply the law in a logical and considered way, rather than be governed by the vitreol of popular impulse.

Regardless of that point though, when you look at what the guy actually did, it is in no wayyyyy comparable to crimes which attract similar punishments, and imo, in no way comparable with what he is having to pay as a result.

I don't expect this opinion to make me hugely popular tbh. I like to say things how I see them though, so there you go.
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If you read my comment the words 'treat it as a joke' are the most telling. Many men have sex with underage girls and I would not advocate castrating all of them. However, when someone thinks themselves above the law and doesn't give two ****s about who they hurt, then the young girls must be protected. Jimmy Saville to name one thought himself above the law and for whatever reason he was protected by those around him, just as SAFC protected Johnson. I'm not saying that what Johnson did is of the same magnitude as Saville, but he was going down the same road. Fortunately the Judge has placed a road block across that road and in the process has probably saved scores of young girls the same fate.
 
deedub93 said:
If you read my comment the words 'treat it as a joke' are the most telling. Many men have sex with underage girls and I would not advocate castrating all of them. However, when someone thinks themselves above the law and doesn't give two ****s about who they hurt, then the young girls must be protected. Jimmy Saville to name one thought himself above the law and for whatever reason he was protected by those around him, just as SAFC protected Johnson. I'm not saying that what Johnson did is of the same magnitude as Saville, but he was going down the same road. Fortunately the Judge has placed a road block across that road and in the process has probably saved scores of young girls the same fate.
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By that logic, anyone convicted of ABH, should be given life on the basis that they were "going down the road" of becoming the next Fred West.
 
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RobSpur said:
And to me, there's something extremely peverse, about a society that hugely exaccerbates the suffering of a victim, just so that it can take revenge on the perpitrator.
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Quite so, very well put. I also note the different ages of consent around the world and that this would not even be an offence in some countries. Nevertheless it is an offence here and the law says (regardless of the "maturity" of the victim) that a 15 year old is not capable of consenting to this sort of behaviour. In other words, the maturity is not taken into account, which makes sense since there is a vast range of maturity at that age. A custodial sentence is therefore appropriate, but the argument does again turn to other sentences for quite horrific crimes that bring apparently lesser punishment. There is certainly a sort of witch hunt for sexual offences now, which is kind of ironic considering what many light entertainment stars of the 70s got away with, and what certain people got away with in Rotherham until quite recently! It's almost like making up for not getting it right before - which is of course wrong as every case should be considered on its own merits.

On a complete aside, there is quite a movement to give the vote to 16 year olds (as they had in the Scottish referendum I believe), so it's interesting that one day a person is protected as a child and the next day they get the vote!
 
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they'll be allowed to smoke at age 8 soon,by law!allowed in a pub at age 10 next for a quick half........
 
Mousa has done his ankle, Toby is ill and Erik has hurt himself... Apparently.

Overblown probably, although Toby has been withdrawn from the Belgium squad.
 
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AS and Calcio Mercato both report that we're looking to sign Los Ladrones' other Croatian, Mateo Kovacic.

Does anyone have the phone numbers of Vedran Corluka or Niko Kranjcar so we can employ them for a Marca-style shame blitz that lasts all summer?
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
AS and Calcio Mercato both report that we're looking to sign Los Ladrones' other Croatian, Mateo Kovacic.

Does anyone have the phone numbers of Vedran Corluka or Niko Kranjcar so we can employ them for a Marca-style shame blitz that lasts all summer?
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I haven't seen enough of Kovacic to judge him, but I thought he'd flopped so far?
Not sure what his best position is either, to be honest.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I haven't seen enough of Kovacic to judge him, but I thought he'd flopped so far?
Not sure what his best position is either, to be honest.
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His move to Los Ladrones was an odd one: the only reason Inter sold him was to comply with FFP, having spent big on Kondogbia and Perisic, and it certainly looks like Los Ladrones mainly signed him so other teams couldn't (not least Barca)

As for his best position, he does come across as similar to Alli: he can play in the pivot (which is where he was deployed when we faced Inter in the Europa League in AVB's first season...yeah, I didn't want to be reminded of that second leg either) or he can play in the attacking trio - while Los Ladrones are repeating Modric's first season with him, dumping him wherever they need a body on the pitch rather than playing him where he should be played.
 
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Remi Garde has left Villa "by mutual consent". Honest.
I wonder who their next victim, er... I mean manager will be?
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
What's the point of doing that at this stage of the season?
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It makes sense if they already have his replacement lined up.
Gives him a chance to assess the players that they've got and have a look at any decent youth players.
They're already down, of course, but the extra preparation time can't hurt.
 
O.Spurcat said:
He has to be one of the most uninspiring managerial appointments ever. At times he looked totally lost.
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I saw absolutely no improvement under him.
Sherwood didn't do well, but I think Garde might have even made them worse.
 
Surely he wouldn't have taken the job without a promise that he'd be given some pocket money to spend in January? And when Lerner decided to be a tight git instead, it was downhill from there. It beggars belief that they brought no-one in, not even on loan!

In all honesty, the final nail in the coffin was trusting Sherwood with the Benteke and Delph windfall. For all his criticism of Baldini's role in Balegate, he squandered tens of millions on utter dross.
 
Villa have been the subject of one bad decision after another throughout Lerner's ownership. Vast amounts of money were spent on transfer fees and wages by O'Neill. The players were not top drawer and had minimal sell on value. O'Neill jumped ship when the money dried up. Subsequent managers had to reduce the wage bill (it went down a further £10m in the last 3 seasons) and their net spend is next lowest to us over the last 5 years of clubs who were ever present in the PL during that period.

Sherwood picked a really poor proposition as they were going down sometime soon. If Garde had any sense he'd have quit once it was apparent he'd have to get the current playing staff to save the club. Presumably, he held out to be paid off, which is likely to have been 3-5 years money in club football in France outside PSG.

The money saved in wages and transfer fees over the last 5 years is likely to be significantly less than what Lerner would have received in 1 further season in the PL. American owners, even when experienced in sports management, are not any guarantee of success on the pitch. Lerner owns the Cleveland Browns, Hicks & Gillette and then The Fenway Group with the Mousers, Shahid Khan at Fulham, the Glazer Family without Ferguson at Utd and even Kroenke's Arsenal don't seem to want to win anything and don't get relegation at all! Since Palace brought in American money, they haven't won a game. Please Joe don't sell us to the Yanks!!
 
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