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Beating Chelsea would still barely be a pigeon step towards winning the title and, if we were to do it, Chelsea would have to be our main rivals otherwise 3 points against them would mean no more than 3 points against Cardiff today.

I'm looking at how we're shaping for the top 4 right now and it's a good start and would remain so even if we didn't beat Chelsea.

Yeah top four is realistically what we can hope for, no harm in the players or manager aiming for the title as better they are ambitious but as fans we cant talk about title challenges at this stage.

Jeez I even remember being 3 points off the top at Christmas when Gerry Francis was manager!

Man City and Chelsea are still my tip for top two, and likely to break away by Christmas.

Below these two, places are up for grabs and it wouldn't surprise me if come may, a win seperates 3rd to 6th.
 
I didn't see that coming so soon, you'd have thought they'd give him a month or so to turn it round. Having said that, he hasn't covered himself in glory on or off the field.
 
Must've done something behind the scenes otherwise what's the point? They've given him all summer to completely overhaul their squad so anyone new can't make many changes when it eventually does get around to January. If they had so much faith in him in the summer then they should give him more than 5 games.
 
Below these two, places are up for grabs and it wouldn't surprise me if come may, a win seperates 3rd to 6th.

Which is frighteningly the same thing as saying one dodgy ref decision may separate the teams - and how many of those are there going to be!
 
Must've done something behind the scenes otherwise what's the point? They've given him all summer to completely overhaul their squad so anyone new can't make many changes when it eventually does get around to January. If they had so much faith in him in the summer then they should give him more than 5 games.

Must be because hes a lunatic who doesn't understand how to manage at this level and Sunderland know if they get left behind like QPR last year under Hughes then its virtually impossible to escape.
 
Which is frighteningly the same thing as saying one dodgy ref decision may separate the teams - and how many of those are there going to be!

Well Vim, according to the 'experts' . decisions even out over the season.
 
I said Di Canio was a mistake and so would Di Matteo be. I don't think that there is a manager for Sunderland in the PL because they're a championship or lower side.