Rival watch

[PowerSpurs]

Surely there’s a distinction there. If he’s acquitted at trial then it means that guilt can’t be proved beyond the standards required in court. If the charges are dropped it could mean anything from there simply being no case after the evidence is properly reviewed or there not being enough evidence beyond circumstance to take it to trial. Or the victim chooses not to go through with it for any number of reasons.

Either way it’s incredibly murky. There are multiple reasons why a case like this may not result in a conviction and sadly they are often incredibly painful cases to be a ‘participant’ in both as a victim and the accused. What a club would do in such circumstances is difficult to say, regardless of the result of the case. I remember Ched Evans being found innocent on review but it was clear that though he was eventually not found to have committed the crime, the facts showed in the case proved him to have deeply troubling attitudes towards women. Regardless of guilt I would struggle to support my club employing such a man.

That's what I was trying to say....you've done it much more clearly.
The concept of innocent until proven guilty really only applies to a state punishing criminals. Civil law works on the balance of probabilities. There are several cases of people successfully suing for damages for sexual assault when the criminal case ended in a not guilty verdict.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

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[SpursDisciple]

Arsenal uploaded pictures of everyone who was training in Germany today. It included first-team players, fringe players and youth.
Partey wasn't in a single photo.

If he wasn't the man in question, they would have dashed our fears away instantly by posting him with the others.

Every single piece of information that is released incriminates him more and more.

I feel sick.

I actually feel for Arsenal fans on this. I couldn't bear it if this was a Spurs player. Doesn't he present as devout Muslim?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I actually feel for Arsenal fans on this. I couldn't bear it if this was a Spurs player. Doesn't he present as devout Muslim?

He recently converted to get married. March, I think.

 

[Bring back Martin Chivers]

I actually feel for Arsenal fans on this. I couldn't bear it if this was a Spurs player. Doesn't he present as devout Muslim?

Tbh if he is a Muslim it explains a lot, especially if the victims were non Muslims. In my actual experience, and when I say that I'm referring to African Muslims that I work with, the male Muslim attitude towards women is one of complete contempt considering them to be 2nd class citizens or worse and viewed as possessions to treat as they see fit. It's why I've never understood the far left's attitude in supporting the Islamic faith when the attitude predominantly is so misogynistic. I always felt the faith has more in common with the far right!

 

[BrunelGunner]

Tbh if he is a Muslim it explains a lot, especially if the victims were non Muslims. In my actual experience, and when I say that I'm referring to African Muslims that I work with, the male Muslim attitude towards women is one of complete contempt considering them to be 2nd class citizens or worse and viewed as possessions to treat as they see fit. It's why I've never understood the far left's attitude in supporting the Islamic faith when the attitude predominantly is so misogynistic. I always felt the faith has more in common with the far right!

Whilst I’m sorry you’ve had to experience this from these individuals, this is a gross generalisation and isn’t indicative of a lot of other Muslims. Including myself - who is also a Muslim.

I’ve heard misogynistic, sexist and chauvinistic views about women from Christians, Hindus & atheists, it doesn’t mean I’m going to tar them all with the same brush by making comments like this about them. Because I know there are plenty of people of those faiths (or, in an atheist’s case, lack of) who don’t share these attitudes.

The issues you are talking about are men’s attitudes to women in general - whatever faith they may be part of isn’t relevant.

 

[BobbyD]

Whilst I’m sorry you’ve had to experience this from these individuals, this is a gross generalisation and isn’t indicative of a lot of other Muslims. Including myself - who is also a Muslim.

I’ve heard misogynistic, sexist and chauvinistic views about women from Christians, Hindus & atheists, it doesn’t mean I’m going to tar them all with the same brush by making comments like this about them. Because I know there are plenty of people of those faiths (or, in an atheist’s case, lack of) who don’t share these attitudes.

The issues you are talking about are men’s attitudes to women in general - whatever faith they may be part of isn’t relevant.

Is that not the same thing you are doing here?

 

[BrunelGunner]

I actually feel for Arsenal fans on this. I couldn't bear it if this was a Spurs player. Doesn't he present as devout Muslim?

He recently converted, but that’s only because his wife is Moroccan and I’m presuming it’s to make it more palatable for her family.

Allegedly, he made these comments after he converted, which doesn’t help his case:
“I have a girl I love, I know my side chics will leave me but it’s no problem… I grew up with Muslims so at the end of the day it’s the same thing”.
https://www.pulse.com.gh/entertainm...ause-of-my-moroccan-girlfriend-partey/pzt6bqz

 

[SpursDisciple]

Is that not the same thing you are doing here?

I don't think saying there is widespread misogyny is the same as saying Islam promotes rape.

 

[BrunelGunner]

Is that not the same thing you are doing here?

If you want to be pedantic, I guess. But in the context of what he’s said about these Muslim men who have these misogynistic attitudes to women, my riposte is that it’s the attitudes of these men which are the problem, not the faith.

But for what it’s worth, I do think a lot of men have deeply troubling ideas and views about women.

 

[Spurf]

Whilst I’m sorry you’ve had to experience this from these individuals, this is a gross generalisation and isn’t indicative of a lot of other Muslims. Including myself - who is also a Muslim.

I’ve heard misogynistic, sexist and chauvinistic views about women from Christians, Hindus & atheists, it doesn’t mean I’m going to tar them all with the same brush by making comments like this about them. Because I know there are plenty of people of those faiths (or, in an atheist’s case, lack of) who don’t share these attitudes.

The issues you are talking about are men’s attitudes to women in general - whatever faith they may be part of isn’t relevant.

Very nice and very kind and much of modern Britain would agree with you, but it is bullshit. We are in the 21st century and most of human kind still believes in religions. They come from a time when the human race did not have answers to many questions that we know about today. Religions were the first attempt by humans to answer the fundamental questions. By now we know much more, and really religions should have passed into history but they haven't because they are very effective at indoctrinating children into their nonsense. They are largely responsible for holding back women and if you deny that then your eyes are shut. Just look around the world where women are exploited and restrained and prevented from all sorts of ordinary activities. Just Look.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Tbh if he is a Muslim it explains a lot, especially if the victims were non Muslims.

We don't know anything about the victims and he converted very recently.
I doubt that his attitude towards women changed dramatically in a few months.
There's also some suggestion of previous accusations prior to his conversion.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

He recently converted, but that’s only because his wife is Moroccan and I’m presuming it’s to make it more palatable for her family.

Allegedly, he made these comments after he converted, which doesn’t help his case:
“I have a girl I love, I know my side chics will leave me but it’s no problem… I grew up with Muslims so at the end of the day it’s the same thing”.
https://www.pulse.com.gh/entertainm...ause-of-my-moroccan-girlfriend-partey/pzt6bqz

Allegedly? You do know that your link has a video of him saying that, right?
It's in Twi, but you can see that he's joking and the interviewer takes it that way, too.

 

[SpursDisciple]

Very nice and very kind and much of modern Britain would agree with you, but it is bullshit. We are in the 21st century and most of human kind still believes in religions. They come from a time when the human race did not have answers to many questions that we know about today. Religions were the first attempt by humans to answer the fundamental questions. By now we know much more, and really religions should have passed into history but they haven't because they are very effective at indoctrinating children into their nonsense. They are largely responsible for holding back women and if you deny that then your eyes are shut. Just look around the world where women are exploited and restrained and prevented from all sorts of ordinary activities. Just Look.

Whilst I agree with much of this, the issue is men and their attitudes. The religious justification is just an excuse. We need to treat women as equals and that issue wouldn't go away if all religions stopped today.

 

[Bring back Martin Chivers]

I don't think saying there is widespread misogyny is the same as saying Islam promotes rape.

Obviously I was not suggesting that the Islamic faith promotes rape however what I am saying is that in my personal experience the African Muslims that I work with have no respect for women in general. I'm sorry if BrunelGunner feels I'm tarring all Muslims with the same brush and possibly the attitudes of the guys that I work with are more based on a culture as these guys were born in Africa and so possibly grew up with a different viewpoint but I can only go by what I actually see and hear from these guys!

 

[Spurf]

Whilst I agree with much of this, the issue is men and their attitudes. The religious justification is just an excuse. We need to treat women as equals and that issue wouldn't go away if all religions stopped today.

Wouldn't it? maybe not but if religions were to go away it would very much easier to move forward. It is religion that has propagated ideas of inequality because that's how men (who invented religion) saw women, so yes the bad attitude was there but it's difficult to move on when over half the world believe in nonsense that perpetuates inequality.

 

[Spurf]

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[BrunelGunner]

Very nice and very kind and much of modern Britain would agree with you, but it is bullshit. We are in the 21st century and most of human kind still believes in religions. They come from a time when the human race did not have answers to many questions that we know about today. Religions were the first attempt by humans to answer the fundamental questions. By now we know much more, and really religions should have passed into history but they haven't because they are very effective at indoctrinating children into their nonsense. They are largely responsible for holding back women and if you deny that then your eyes are shut. Just look around the world where women are exploited and restrained and prevented from all sorts of ordinary activities. Just Look.

Respectfully, I strongly disagree with almost everything you've said here.

Firstly, I resent this idea that 'modern Britain' agrees with me - as if many British people in the 21st Century don't hold troubling and awful views/behaviours about women? This is a very western-centric, orientalist view. The premise of this is inherently flawed in nature.

Secondly, if people believe in religion, that's their prerogative. You say people become indoctrinated and more close-minded; but people who are religious (and especially those who are converts), a lot of feedback from them will tell you that they felt liberated, more open-minded and that it's help them to understand various perspectives. Religion is a set of principles and beliefs that relate to a higher purpose/reason for being. I can just as easily say that by telling your kids that God doesn't exist, that religion is nonsense etc that you're indoctrinating them with negative preconceived notions and ideas about people who choose to believe in something different. Plurality still does exist in religion, contrary to what you believe.

Thirdly, I don't agree with the idea that religion is largely responsible for holding back women. The rights of a woman under Islamic law from the beginning was more progressive than a lot of the stuff we saw in Europe for centuries. For too long, people in power hide between the veil of religion to suit their insidious agendas and will try to cherry-pick certain quotes that justify their bigotry. These current Muslim-dominated countries, where women don't have many freedoms, is not something that is universally supported or accepted by other Muslims. Again, a lot of is to do with power hierarchy, control, colonialism and imperialism.

 

[BrunelGunner]

Allegedly? You do know that your link has a video of him saying that, right?
It's in Twi, but you can see that he's joking and the interviewer takes it that way, too.

I didn't actually watch the video, and I wasn't sure how reliable the source was, but if he has said that, then ****ing hell.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I didn't actually watch the video, and I wasn't sure how reliable the source was, but if he has said that, then ****ing hell.

He's joking. Without the context I don't think anyone would care.
If another player got married and said his girlfriend was going to leave him and laughed?
Nobody would give it a second thought. It only looks bad now.