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"Thanks for that Brian" said:
There is a slight problem in missing out on about £50m (minimum).....if you have to earn your money and owe the cost of building a stadium.

Playing in the Europa League could cost United £100,000,000 in TV, gate receipts, sponsorships, shirt deals, etc, etc. next season. Win it or not....nobody's going to be celebrating that at the club. It's losing a £50 note and finding a £5.
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Don't get me wrong. Playing in the CL is far better than playing in EL for exposure and the money and for playing those big nights against better teams

However if you ask me if i would prefer winning the EL and not winning the CL then thats a no brainer imo.
 
deedub93 said:
you are like Prince Philip on the road and I wouldn't fancy his chances of driving all the way to Valencia :)
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That's fair, however, we beat 2nd-placed Napoli away from home comfortably, a Napoli team who were favourites to win the Europa and who everyone thought we would get knocked out to. So that does give me a modicum of confidence going into the second-leg. They will need to come out and attack us, which leaves them vulnerable on the counter. If we can get one goal out there, I think the tie is done, in my opinion.

Valencia have drawn 20 matches this season (in all competitions). They struggle to score goals at home, too.

Like I said. To blow a two-goal lead from this point would be embarrassing and we don't deserve to reach the final if we can't get over the line.
 
BrunelGooner said:
That's fair, however, we beat 2nd-placed Napoli away from home comfortably, a Napoli team who were favourites to win the Europa and who everyone thought we would get knocked out to. So that does give me a modicum of confidence going into the second-leg. They will need to come out and attack us, which leaves them vulnerable on the counter. If we can get one goal out there, I think the tie is done, in my opinion.

Valencia have drawn 20 matches this season (in all competitions). They struggle to score goals at home, too.

Like I said. To blow a two-goal lead from this point would be embarrassing and we don't deserve to reach the final if we can't get over the line.
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I think you will score over there and as you say they are unlikely to score enough to beat you if you do, as they are not prolific goalscorers.
 
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BobbyD said:
because lets face it, a europa league trophy is better than a top 4 spot as you get a trophy and CL. The only way you would out trump that is obviously winning the CL
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The obvious difference is the prize money. IIRC a team that goes all the way in the EL and wins the thing earns around €19.5m. For the sake of completeness, add to that the €15.5m they then receive the next season for simply turning up to the CL group stage and you're talking about an appx total prize money less than €40m. Not shabby, I agree, but the losing finalist in the CL will have gained appx €78m along the way.

Whilst I like many other Spurs fans would love to see us lift a major trophy, especially if the perceived outcome is identical to finishing in the top 4, the reality is quite different and even if you go all the way in the EL this year and we fail to win the CL, the difference in prize money is a greater 'win' in the eyes of our chairman and board. And, for now, I agree with them. But not for much longer.
 
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D.G.C. said:
Ok Power, what would you prefer? To win the Europa AND CL qualification or just top four with no trophy? Just answering your piece of sarcasm.
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Power has a point though we can't win a tournament we are not in? Have Portsmouth had a better season than us because they have won the Johnstones Paint Trophy?

As for the Europa Chelsea and Arsenal are the biggest and richest clubs in that tournament by some distance and should be making progress in it, that said if one of them wins it they will have done well and the added bonus of the champions league place which has only been added in the last few years does make it a more valid competition than it was when we were regulalrly getting knocked out after the group stages.
 
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The Changing Man said:
As for the Europa Chelsea and Arsenal are the biggest and richest clubs in that tournament by some distance and should be making progress in it, that said if one of them wins it they will have done well and the added bonus of the champions league place which has only been added in the last few years does make it a more valid competition than it was when we were regulalrly getting knocked out after the group stages.
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Even the added prize of a CL spot makes it a dubious competition to take seriously. Let's say a team kills themselves to go all the way but then chokes in the final and also finishes 5th or lower in the league, that 90mins of poor football has cost them €4.5m in EL money plus a minimum €15.5m CL money the next season. Liverpool in 15/16 are a great example of this. Finished 8th that year but only 6 points off of 4th. Reached the EL final played a superb first 45mins then collapsed in the second 45. Walked away with a paltry €14m in prize money for all their efforts. Meanwhile we screw up the EL but finish 3rd and consequently earn more than €20m for a shambolic CL campaign the year after. Financially it's a no brainer and there is every possibility the runner up in this years EL will also finish outside the top 4, which to my mind would represent a disastrous waste of time and effort.
 
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The Changing Man said:
Power has a point though we can't win a tournament we are not in? Have Portsmouth had a better season than us because they have won the Johnstones Paint Trophy?

As for the Europa Chelsea and Arsenal are the biggest and richest clubs in that tournament by some distance and should be making progress in it, that said if one of them wins it they will have done well and the added bonus of the champions league place which has only been added in the last few years does make it a more valid competition than it was when we were regulalrly getting knocked out after the group stages.
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My point wasn't about winning a trophy in a competition we are not in, it was about winning a major trophy, whatever the trophy against not winning a major trophy. They, I think, stand a better chance of winning the EL than we have of winning the CL which means they win a trophy and we go trophyless meaning they get one over on us again so no, Power doesn't have a point, he's off the point.

Winning a trophy means higher morale amongst the players and staff, bragging rights etc etc. Power said something about winning a trophy in a competition that we are too good to be in, too good to be in the EL but not too good to be in the FA Cup like Watford are in.
 
BobbyD said:
Don't get me wrong. Playing in the CL is far better than playing in EL for exposure and the money and for playing those big nights against better teams

However if you ask me if i would prefer winning the EL and not winning the CL then thats a no brainer imo.
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If the money was the same it's a no brainer. However, if you look at the Liverpool this season and the Liverpool of last season, the difference is stark. They won £82 M for the CL run last year and invested it improving the team, which has resulted in them mounting a sound challenge for the title. I prefer to improve for the future.

I can understand a Chelsea fan preferring the trophy, because money has not been a problem, Uncle Roman has provided more than enough, but at Tottenham it is different. We have to live within our means.
 
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C. Kane said:
The obvious difference is the prize money. IIRC a team that goes all the way in the EL and wins the thing earns around €19.5m.
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Have told you all this several times ...

1. A club that is in the EL that wins every game to reach the final makes
as much in UEFA PRIZE money as a club that reaches the CL group
stages and does nothing more.

2. A club that is playing a CL game is getting far more broadcast revenues
than one playing an EL game.


Nowadays, because the PL is (currently) so cash rich, certain clubs do not
necessarily need the CL money. Yet in the days of the "Sky 4" there is no
doubting that the CL piggy trough for years allowed them to maintain/
increase their then hegemony.
 
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Ultimately from a fan's perspective, winning a trophy is better than not winning one. The EL is a great competition to win regardless of what some people say and if Chelsea/ Arsenal win it and we do crash out to Ajax/ lose the final, I think most would agree from a fan's POV that they would've had the better season as they've won a great trophy and qualified for the CL.

The club's POV will still say we've had a better season from a business standpoint as we'll likely pocket 3 maybe even 4 times as much as the EL winners but ultimately in 20 years time, you'd remember winning the EL instead of getting to a semi final of the CL.

EDIT: We're still in with a chance of winning the CL though despite the first leg loss, so if that happens, checkmate motherfuckers.
 
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Premier League club valuations 2017-18 (£m)

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To calculate their data, the university took into account revenue, profits, non-recurring costs, average profits on player sales over a three-year period, net assets, wage control and proportion of seats sold.

The research says City are top due to a combination of "higher revenue and lower wages". They made £39m in profit from player sales at the beginning of last season, "removing some high earners from the wage bill".

"The ownership model of Sheikh Mansour, which effectively means that the club is debt free*, means that there are no loan interest costs and no dividends are paid to shareholders either," the study added.

Other findings:
  • United had the highest revenue in the league at £590m, with City second on £500m
  • Spurs have the lowest wage/revenue percentage in the division at 39%, while Palace's is the highest at 78%
  • Leicester and Arsenal's failure to qualify for the Champions League again saw their value fall
  • The Gunners made £120m profit on player sales (<confused> when did this happen?!)
  • Burnley are described in the study as the "most sensibly run club in the Premier League financially"
  • Huddersfield have the lowest wages at £63m, with United's £296m the highest
  • Chelsea top the table for annual matchday income per fan at £1,791, with Huddersfield making the least at £201
  • Broadcast revenue accounts for 88% of Bournemouth's value - the highest in the league (This is why it is so crucial for smaller clubs to stay in the PL, risking life and limb to do it - see Brighton below)
  • Brighton saw a 148% increase in wages - the most in the league

Full article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48145285

*Namely: any actual accrued debt is just siphoned off onto Sheikh Mansour's various other overseas holdings.
 
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C. Kane said:
Premier League club valuations 2017-18 (£m)

You must log in or register to see images


To calculate their data, the university took into account revenue, profits, non-recurring costs, average profits on player sales over a three-year period, net assets, wage control and proportion of seats sold.

The research says City are top due to a combination of "higher revenue and lower wages". They made £39m in profit from player sales at the beginning of last season, "removing some high earners from the wage bill".

"The ownership model of Sheikh Mansour, which effectively means that the club is debt free*, means that there are no loan interest costs and no dividends are paid to shareholders either," the study added.

Other findings:
  • United had the highest revenue in the league at £590m, with City second on £500m
  • Spurs have the lowest wage/revenue percentage in the division at 39%, while Palace's is the highest at 78%
  • Leicester and Arsenal's failure to qualify for the Champions League again saw their value fall
  • The Gunners made £120m profit on player sales (<confused> when did this happen?!)
  • Burnley are described in the study as the "most sensibly run club in the Premier League financially"
  • Huddersfield have the lowest wages at £63m, with United's £296m the highest
  • Chelsea top the table for annual matchday income per fan at £1,791, with Huddersfield making the least at £201
  • Broadcast revenue accounts for 88% of Bournemouth's value - the highest in the league (This is why it is so crucial for smaller clubs to stay in the PL, risking life and limb to do it - see Brighton below)
  • Brighton saw a 148% increase in wages - the most in the league

Full article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48145285

*Namely: any actual accrued debt is just siphoned off onto Sheikh Mansour's various other holdings overseas holdings.
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In other words, The Sheikh Mansour Team are worth approximately what they've spent since Thaksin Shinawatra showed up on their doorstep
 
D.G.C. said:
Ok Power, what would you prefer? To win the Europa AND CL qualification or just top four with no trophy? Just answering your piece of sarcasm.
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The second because the only way we can do the first is to have a season out of the Champions League. Just as the only way to win the Championship is to have a season out of the PL.
 
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D.G.C. said:
My point wasn't about winning a trophy in a competition we are not in, it was about winning a major trophy, whatever the trophy against not winning a major trophy. They, I think, stand a better chance of winning the EL than we have of winning the CL which means they win a trophy and we go trophyless meaning they get one over on us again so no, Power doesn't have a point, he's off the point.

Winning a trophy means higher morale amongst the players and staff, bragging rights etc etc. Power said something about winning a trophy in a competition that we are too good to be in, too good to be in the EL but not too good to be in the FA Cup like Watford are in.
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It's obviously good for Arsenal or Chelsea if they win the EL but I would honestly prefer we never got the chance of that sort of glory. If we happen to be in it then I would like us to win it.
 
BobbyD said:
Don't get me wrong. Playing in the CL is far better than playing in EL for exposure and the money and for playing those big nights against better teams

However if you ask me if i would prefer winning the EL and not winning the CL then thats a no brainer imo.
Click to expand...

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. United won it a few years ago.....no bus parade......nothing. They didn't bother to celebrate it, at all.

That says enough for me. Yes, it's now a route into the CL but if Chelsea or Arsenal were 2nd and third, not fourth and fifth, it would be an after thought.
 
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