Rival watch

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"Thanks for that Brian" said:
Ultimately, if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. Arsenal have a large number of players who have come into the set up as youngsters and just not lived up to their obvious potential. If there was one or two, then okay, it happens at all clubs but that's not the case. It's a lot more worrying than that. Since Fabregas, I can't think of more than one [Bellerin] that's fulfilled their potential or anything approaching that level on a consistent basis and they're all still there failing to do so today. That points at an acceptance of under-performance from the manager and a culture of 'it's not my fault or problem' from the players. If Wenger's holding them to account for their performances, then where's the improvement or why haven't those players left?

I'm not so naive as to think that some managers don't save their true thoughts for the dressing room but nothing's changing season on season for these players or your team. I'd suggest Wenger changes something because you're stuck in Groundhog Day. Why not come out and say that the performance against Everton wasn't good enough? Has MP saying he expected more from Sissoko done any harm to the Frenchman or has it cleared the air? Treat them like men and maybe that's how they'll react? Currently, it's Wenger and his boys that are letting the club down.

Sanchez stands out so much because he's not been affected by it. He hates to fail, it pours out of him. If he was your manager then I reckon over half of your team would be gone this summer. Unfortunately, for you, he's likely to be gone and Wenger, Theo, Ox, Ramsey et al will still be there next season and playing in exactly the same manner.
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Good post and valid points well made.

I just want to address the question you asked about why these players haven't improved or left.

As I've said earlier, part of the reason why Wenger still keeps his faith in these players is his emotional attachment to some of them. As he's bought or nurtured a lot of these players from a young age, and he's clearly seen something in them to show that they could make it at Arsenal, he's tried to stick by them through thick and thin because he doesn't want their careers to be wasted playing at a level he deems to be below what they're capable of.

This is where you need to be ruthless and take the hit on some players because, regardless of how good they may have looked before, if they're not cutting it, they're not cutting it and you need to accept that for whatever reason it just didn't work out.

Which brings me onto my next point - Wenger's ego and stubbornness. I genuinely think that another part of the reason why he's kept these players is because he wanted to prove a point that you can win the league through acquiring or developing players when they're young and turning them into top class players who can compete. His youth project has been a failure, but I feel like he is still reluctant to accept this and still won't let go of some of these players in the faint hope that they will one day finally come good. Part of it is down to proving the media and pundits wrong who have ever doubted him and questioned his tactics. He seems to make it his personal mission to prove that he knows better than the rest, so part of the reason he holds onto to these underperforming players is because he also doesn't want to concede that his purist methods and ideas won't come to fruition.

But it's a tricky one because part of the reason for these players' regression/stagnation is down to Wenger himself - so if he got rid of these players and brought in new ones, would we really improve that much? Because it just seems that no matter what player we bring in or how varied our team looks, we suffer from the same problems every year - and that, undeniably, is down to the manager. So due to Wenger's flaws, I'm not so sure we'd even be performing significantly better than we are now even with better players because I don't think he'd know how to maximise their potential.
 
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BrunelGooner said:
Good post and valid points well made.

I just want to address the question you asked about why these players haven't improved or left.

As I've said earlier, part of the reason why Wenger still keeps his faith in these players is his emotional attachment to some of them. As he's bought or nurtured a lot of these players from a young age, and he's clearly seen something in them to show that they could make it at Arsenal, he's tried to stick by them through thick and thin because he doesn't want their careers to be wasted playing at a level he deems to be below what they're capable of.

This is where you need to be ruthless and take the hit on some players because, regardless of how good they may have looked before, if they're not cutting it, they're not cutting it and you need to accept that for whatever reason it just didn't work out.

Which brings me onto my next point - Wenger's ego and stubbornness. I genuinely think that another part of the reason why he's kept these players is because he wanted to prove a point that you can win the league through acquiring or developing players when they're young and turning them into top class players who can compete. His youth project has been a failure, but I feel like he is still reluctant to accept this and still won't let go of some of these players in the faint hope that they will one day finally come good. Part of it is down to proving the media and pundits wrong who have ever doubted him and questioned his tactics. He seems to make it his personal mission to prove that he knows better than the rest, so part of the reason he holds onto to these underperforming players is because he also doesn't want to concede that his purist methods and ideas won't come to fruition.

But it's a tricky one because part of the reason for these players' regression/stagnation is down to Wenger himself - so if he got rid of these players and brought in new ones, would we really improve that much? Because it just seems that no matter what player we bring in or how varied our team looks, we suffer from the same problems every year - and that, undeniably, is down to the manager. So due to Wenger's flaws, I'm not so sure we'd even be performing significantly better than we are now even with better players because I don't think he'd know how to maximise their potential.
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I wonder whether the problem doesn't start at a level higher than Wenger? if the board wanted more, then his underachievement should result in the same outcome as a large number of his players deserve. He'd be gone and someone with a different ethos would get a go at it. However, Kroenke is on record that winning isn't everything....there's the real problem.
 
BrunelGooner said:
Good post and valid points well made.

I just want to address the question you asked about why these players haven't improved or left.

As I've said earlier, part of the reason why Wenger still keeps his faith in these players is his emotional attachment to some of them. As he's bought or nurtured a lot of these players from a young age, and he's clearly seen something in them to show that they could make it at Arsenal, he's tried to stick by them through thick and thin because he doesn't want their careers to be wasted playing at a level he deems to be below what they're capable of.

This is where you need to be ruthless and take the hit on some players because, regardless of how good they may have looked before, if they're not cutting it, they're not cutting it and you need to accept that for whatever reason it just didn't work out.

Which brings me onto my next point - Wenger's ego and stubbornness. I genuinely think that another part of the reason why he's kept these players is because he wanted to prove a point that you can win the league through acquiring or developing players when they're young and turning them into top class players who can compete. His youth project has been a failure, but I feel like he is still reluctant to accept this and still won't let go of some of these players in the faint hope that they will one day finally come good. Part of it is down to proving the media and pundits wrong who have ever doubted him and questioned his tactics. He seems to make it his personal mission to prove that he knows better than the rest, so part of the reason he holds onto to these underperforming players is because he also doesn't want to concede that his purist methods and ideas won't come to fruition.

But it's a tricky one because part of the reason for these players' regression/stagnation is down to Wenger himself - so if he got rid of these players and brought in new ones, would we really improve that much? Because it just seems that no matter what player we bring in or how varied our team looks, we suffer from the same problems every year - and that, undeniably, is down to the manager. So due to Wenger's flaws, I'm not so sure we'd even be performing significantly better than we are now even with better players because I don't think he'd know how to maximise their potential.
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It makes a refreshing change hearing such an honest Gooner. The biggest problem facing you now is surely the plan of action for the 'Post-Wenger' era. I feel that the state of your squad now is reminiscent of United's the season Fergie left, but several degrees worse off. Whoever takes over (IF Wenger finally leaves in the summer) will have a massive job on his hands clearing out the deadwood that we both agree clogs up your squad. That manager would have to be a massive name with a superb CV and excellent ideas in order to keep hold of the likes of Bellerin and Sanchez, and tempt top quality talent to replace the wood drifting out the door. Like United, your choice of successor could prove disastrous to the club. Unlike United, you don't have unlimited funds to fix the ramifications of a poor choice in successor. Unlike United, you face the prospect of a resurgent Liverpool and ever-strengthening Spurs - on the brink of moving into a stadium with an even larger capacity than your own - which surely raises the rather delicious possibility of Arsenal post-Wenger actually fading into a wilderness that lasts longer than a year or two.

As a club, you are in a very precarious position. Nowhere near the financial power of United, City and Chelsea. Not far enough ahead of the financial power of Liverpool and Spurs, and with a squad completely clogged with mediocre players being paid ludicrously high wages who will never be good enough to win titles.

I'm not saying 'better the devil you know' as much as I am saying that this season really was Wenger's last chance to win the coveted big prize. He has screwed that up and it's only January. If he leaves in the summer on the crest of another wave of failure, the decision made to appoint his successor could be life or death for you. Would you trust Kroenke and Gazebo with that decision? Is the following scenario really that far-fetched that you guys aren't suffering sleepless nights because of it?

1) Arsenal finish 4th
2) Sanchez leaves
3) Wenger leaves 'by mutual consent'
4) Big name manager brought in, struggles to clear the deadwood due to the insane wages they are all on
5) Arsenal miss out on top 4 next season
6) Arsenal's 4th place 'reserved' seat permanently usurped by one of Liverpool or Spurs
 
Fulham beat Cardiff 2-1 in Wales, playing with wingbacks.
Ryan Fredericks MOTM and Ryan Sessegnon scores the winning goal.
The former's one of our ex-youth players, while the latter's been linked with a move to us for quite a while.
Youngest ever goalscorer in the FA Cup. Still 16.
 
I saw the first half of that one. Fredericks looked Walker-esque (albeit at a very different level of football) and the young lad must be pleased as punch with his goal.
 
New Crystal Palace manager Sam Allardyce says he will have money to spend, but admits the club may have to pay "astronomically high" transfer fees for players during the January transfer window

"Mr Chairman, it's Palace on the phone. They want to sign one of our players"

"Tell Sam it's £50m, no matter who he wants. He can take it or leave it."

If they weren't going to have to do so before, they sure will now he's said that. <doh>
 
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"Thanks for that Brian" said:
New Crystal Palace manager Sam Allardyce says he will have money to spend, but admits the club may have to pay "astronomically high" transfer fees for players during the January transfer window

"Mr Chairman, it's Palace on the phone. They want to sign one of our players"

"Tell Sam it's £50m, no matter who he wants. He can take it or leave it."

If they weren't going to have to do so before, they sure will now he's said that. <doh>
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I take it the fee is £5m for the player, and the other £45m is Allarshyte's "consultancy fee"
 
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humanbeingincroydon said:
West Ham were unable to wear a kit advertised as their FA Cup strip - and sold to fans for up to £55 - against Manchester City as it contravened Football Association regulations.

That's some more cash scammed out of the British taxpayer then...
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<laugh><laugh><laugh>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

They are truly the gift that keeps giving. I predict that in 10 years' time there will be a comedy released called Wet Sham that will be more than 'based on a true story'. Starring Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell as Gold & Sullivan.
 
C. Kane said:
<laugh><laugh><laugh>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

They are truly the gift that keeps giving. I predict that in 10 years' time there will be a comedy released called Wet Sham that will be more than 'based on a true story'. Starring Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell as Gold & Sullivan.
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I'm pretty sure that there is precedent for such events - and any half decent, honourable club would offer full refunds to fans who have purchased the kit in good faith. Oh - but this is Wet Sham......... <laugh>
 
Just in case West Ham fans weren't feeling the pain enough just yet, their owners have doubled down on dopey decisions.
"What can we do to calm the supporters, who're sick of excuses and hate the new ground?
I know, let's publish an article from Martin Samuel from the Daily Mail, telling them that we've always been ****! That'll help!"
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/january/09-january/samuel-has-change

Didn't even pay the bloke to write it, just got it on the cheap from that rag.
Utterly ignores all of the fans' concerns and complaints, pretending that it's about something else, instead.
No wonder Birmingham fans couldn't wait to see the back of the tossers.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
Just in case West Ham fans weren't feeling the pain enough just yet, their owners have doubled down on dopey decisions.
"What can we do to calm the supporters, who're sick of excuses and hate the new ground?
I know, let's publish an article from Martin Samuel from the Daily Mail, telling them that we've always been ****! That'll help!"
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/january/09-january/samuel-has-change

Didn't even pay the bloke to write it, just got it on the cheap from that rag.
Utterly ignores all of the fans' concerns and complaints, pretending that it's about something else, instead.
No wonder Birmingham fans couldn't wait to see the back of the tossers.
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With the level of genuine and heart-felt enmity on here towards them, coupled with their constant entertainment value, it may be that Wet Sham are worth their own thread: 'Spammer Watch' perhaps?
On field or backroom their shenanigans are comedy gold - when they aren't criminally corrupt of course. They certainly don't fit the 'Rival' thread <laugh>
 
Spur of the Moment said:
With the level of genuine and heart-felt enmity on here towards them, coupled with their constant entertainment value, it may be that Wet Sham are worth their own thread: 'Spammer Watch' perhaps?
On field or backroom their shenanigans are comedy gold - when they aren't criminally corrupt of course. They certainly don't fit the 'Rival' thread <laugh>
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I think that they're currently a very useful lesson in what not to do in the near future.
We've got a big change coming soon and they've made a complete mess of theirs.
We have to avoid making the same mistakes.
 
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Well at least we have a head start in that we haven't pissed off half the nation by ripping the arse out of public funds!
But more importantly we are not emigrating to an unconnected location, to a ground unsuitable for football and with the most despised owners in the PL. (and that's saying something when you have Hull, Palace & Chavs as competition!)
 
Everton have agreed a £22m fee with United for Schneiderlin. Bit of a weird one as Gueye has been doing really well for them in the holding role, but I guess with Barry waning and McCarthy simply not good enough (SO glad we never went in for him), it makes sense to replenish that department. Their ageing back line is surely their biggest problem zone though?
 
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