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I'm not going to go into it DL, as we've discussed this at length in the past and all have different opinions.

But to be brief, IMO, there's no way La Liga can be as competitive as the PL when it's the same two teams that consistently battle for 1st & 2nd. It's just those two + the rest.

The PL has seen much more of a fight in the top 5-6 over the years. Liverpool used to be up there challenging for top 4, but they've slipped and are now rebuilding. We've come out of nowhere in recent years, City have bought their way to the top, and the title has been won by 3 different clubs. - with one of those clubs finishing 6th (Chelsea) the seasons before last.
Next season our league could be wide open and ready for more changes, once again. IMO, Chelsea will be the winners. If they aren't, it will be very close between them and those that do win the title.
You just can't call what's going to happen in the premier league and even more so this season with all the managerial changes. One thing we know about La Liga is that it's extremely likely, if not guaranteed that Barca and Real will be the top 2.

between 2nd and 5th (4 teams)in the EPL there was a only 6 point gap. Between 2nd + 5th in La Liga there was 20. For me, that makes the league weaker as there's less competition.
 
Roo said:
I'm not going to go into it DL, as we've discussed this at length in the past and all have different opinions.

But to be brief, IMO, there's no way La Liga can be as competitive as the PL when it's the same two teams that consistently battle for 1st & 2nd. It's just those two + the rest.

The PL has seen much more of a fight in the top 5-6 over the years. Liverpool used to be up there challenging for top 4, but they've slipped and are now rebuilding. We've come out of nowhere in recent years, City have bought their way to the top, and the title has been won by 3 different clubs. - with one of those clubs finishing 6th (Chelsea) the seasons before last.
Next season our league could be wide open and ready for more changes, once again. IMO, Chelsea will be the winners. If they aren't, it will be very close between them and those that do win the title.
You just can't call what's going to happen in the premier league and even more so this season with all the managerial changes. One thing we know about La Liga is that it's extremely likely, if not guaranteed that Barca and Real will be the top 2.

between 2nd and 5th (4 teams)in the EPL there was a only 6 point gap. Between 2nd + 5th in La Liga there was 20. For me, that makes the league weaker as there's less competition.
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Fair post Roo.

However, I often find that when analysing leagues we only look at the top position rather than the league as a whole. It is true that there is a duopoly in La Liga (although that's no different to leagues in Portugal, Germany and England or monopoly leagues like Scotland and France), however the rest of the league as a whole is very strong.

Is the PL really that competitive when at least 15 out of the 20 teams will begin the season knowing they cannot realistically finish any higher than 5th? In the last 2 seasons Real Sociedad, Atletico Madrid, Valencia and Malaga have all qualified for the CL. That's 4 different teams outside the top 2 compared to just 2 in the PL (Chelsea and Arsenal). Similarly in Germany... Mönchengladbach, Schalke and Leverkusen have all qualified for the CL. Even at the bottom it's unpredictable with anyone being able to beat anyone and teams finishing top half one season, then bottom 6 the next.

IMO better competition makes for a stronger league, hence why I believe Bundesliga is the strongest followed by La Liga.

City and United dominate the PL, Bayern and Dortmund Bundesliga and Barca/Real La Liga but the difference is, IMO, The Germans/Spanish are playing against much tougher opposition in at least 1/2 of their games, compared to City or United.
 
District Line said:
Fair post Roo.

However, I often find that when analysing leagues we only look at the top position rather than the league as a whole. It is true that there is a duopoly in La Liga (although that's no different to leagues in Portugal, Germany and England or monopoly leagues like Scotland and France), however the rest of the league as a whole is very strong.

Is the PL really that competitive when at least 15 out of the 20 teams will begin the season knowing they cannot realistically finish any higher than 5th? In the last 2 seasons Real Sociedad, Atletico Madrid, Valencia and Malaga have all qualified for the CL. That's 4 different teams outside the top 2 compared to just 2 in the PL (Chelsea and Arsenal). Similarly in Germany... Mönchengladbach, Schalke and Leverkusen have all qualified for the CL. Even at the bottom it's unpredictable with anyone being able to beat anyone and teams finishing top half one season, then bottom 6 the next.

IMO better competition makes for a stronger league, hence why I believe Bundesliga is the strongest followed by La Liga.

City and United dominate the PL, Bayern and Dortmund Bundesliga and Barca/Real La Liga but the difference is, IMO, The Germans/Spanish are playing against much tougher opposition in at least 1/2 of their games, compared to City or United.
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That is by far and away the biggest load of tripe I've read, you come across occasionally as not stupid, so this from you demonstrates nothing but an attempt to continue this nonsense.

DL, you are never in a million years going to convince anyone, and I know you don't believe it yourself! that the Bundesliga is stronger than the PL. It was won by 25 points!! The last paragraph of yours is pure Disney, Dortmund dominant?? 2nd by 25 points, and 1point ahead of third...why do you quote this unresearched crap, its embarrassing.
 
We've done this one before. As we all know, T.V. money is increasingly more lucrative - not just in the U.K. but all over Europe. Unlike the Premier league, the clubs here negotiate their own separate deals re T.V. rights - rather than the collective method that is used in the P.L. Unsurprisingly, this ensures that the status quo remains as I'm sure you can work out which two clubs get by far the lion's share of the money.

We have, in the past, seen brief showings from Rafa Benitez's Valencia, and Atletico are usually up there somewhere. Villareal are also a good side. As with everywhere else though, money talks the loudest. These other clubs, no matter how well run, just cannot hope to compete with the financial firepower of the big two.

Oil money has brought new challengers to the P.L. And, of course, to France. Whether that is liable to happen elsewhere in Europe, we will have to wait and see. If the FFP rules fail to have any bite, then I suspect that it will.
 
notsosmartspur said:
That is by far and away the biggest load of tripe I've read, you come across occasionally as not stupid, so this from you demonstrates nothing but an attempt to continue this nonsense.

DL, you are never in a million years going to convince anyone, and I know you don't believe it yourself! that the Bundesliga is stronger than the PL. It was won by 25 points!! The last paragraph of yours is pure Disney, Dortmund dominant?? 2nd by 25 points, and 1point ahead of third...why do you quote this unresearched crap, its embarrassing.
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If you are exposed to Sky Sports News often enough, then the PL is the best and strongest in the world, but if you aren't, it isn't.

Every PL side can't play every German side but the performances of the German sides (of late), especially against the English, demonstrate to me that they are stronger. if you watch the Bundesliga there is also a far higher quality of player due to the academies being far more advanced and producing the likes of Mesut Ozil, Marco Reus, Thomas Muller, Ilkay Gundogan and so forth.

All of us can agree that Germany and Spain produce better players than England and for me, that's the root cause of their superiority. Their (midtable) teams produce far better players than ours and now the money has dried up and La Liga has usurped it, we can no longer c=get first dibs on the best foreign talent.
 
District Line said:
With a team that had pretty much won their league two seasons prior to that and come 2nd the season before.
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I fail to see how the fact winning the league 2 years previous has anything to do with this. Football players do not perform to their max season to season and with the age of the squad a lot of Chelsea's players were/are on their way out. Bryan Robson used to be pretty good, i wouldn't have him in the Spurs midfield now though.
 
Spurm said:
I fail to see how the fact winning the league 2 years previous has anything to do with this. Football players do not perform to their max season to season and with the age of the squad a lot of Chelsea's players were/are on their way out. Bryan Robson used to be pretty good, i wouldn't have him in the Spurs midfield now though.
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The spine of the team was no different. Cech, Cole, Ivanovic Terry, Mikel, Lampard, Drogba who'd won everything else there is to win. That's more of a reflection of their quality than where they finished in 1 particular competition in 1 particular season.
 
District Line said:
If you are exposed to Sky Sports News often enough, then the PL is the best and strongest in the world, but if you aren't, it isn't.

Every PL side can't play every German side but the performances of the German sides (of late), especially against the English, demonstrate to me that they are stronger. if you watch the Bundesliga there is also a far higher quality of player due to the academies being far more advanced and producing the likes of Mesut Ozil, Marco Reus, Thomas Muller, Ilkay Gundogan and so forth.

All of us can agree that Germany and Spain produce better players than England and for me, that's the root cause of their superiority. Their (midtable) teams produce far better players than ours and now the money has dried up and La Liga has usurped it, we can no longer c=get first dibs on the best foreign talent.
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I'd prefer you to answer your original claim, the Bundesliga better than the PL, but it would seem you can't!

Can we not go down the route of individual German players being better than equivalent English players, that is a totally different point of discussion.

Apart from German teams lack of regular appearance in the CL latter stages, here's their recent progress in the EL striking fear into one and all!

2013 - Stuttgart - Last 16
2012 - Hannover, Schalke - Qtrs.
2011 - Leverkusen - Last 16

The Bundesliga is not a better standard than the PL! <ok>

Your comment about being 'blinded' by too much Sky Sports...now you are avin a laugh!
 
I seem to remember that the team that won the Champions league 2012 were then made to look very silly by Atletico Madrid in the super cup!

Personally, I would say that nowadays there is not much between the very top sides in England, Germany, and Spain. On their day, any one of them is capable of beating one of the others. Once you get lower down the divisions, I'm not so sure.

The reason(s) that both Germany and Spain have far better national sides are obvious - far better coaching, and also the average Spanish or German side has a far higher ratio of it's own nationals in it.
 
notsosmartspur said:
I'd prefer you to answer your original claim, the Bundesliga better than the PL, but it would seem you can't!

Can we not go down the route of individual German players being better than equivalent English players, that is a totally different point of discussion.

Apart from German teams lack of regular appearance in the CL latter stages, here's their recent progress in the EL striking fear into one and all!

2013 - Stuttgart - Last 16
2012 - Hannover, Schalke - Qtrs.
2011 - Leverkusen - Last 16

The Bundesliga is not a better standard than the PL! <ok>

Your comment about being 'blinded' by too much Sky Sports...now you are avin a laugh!
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The Germans don't take the EL seriously, bit like the English.
 
District Line said:
The Germans don't take the EL seriously, bit like the English.
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As I expected, a rather unworthy reply.

To give your baseless argument another kick in the testes, there are only 18 teams in the Bundesliga, the 18th place getting 21 points and 17th 30 points, the 18th placed team in the PL had 36 and 17th 39 points, once again flattening your rubbish hypothesis that the lower half of the Bundesliga give the top teams tougher games...when will you concede I know more than you! :D
 
District Line said:
The spine of the team was no different. Cech, Cole, Ivanovic Terry, Mikel, Lampard, Drogba who'd won everything else there is to win. That's more of a reflection of their quality than where they finished in 1 particular competition in 1 particular season.
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You missed my point entirely
 
notsosmartspur said:
I don't agree, for example the passing accuracy, I read weekly how inferior we are to the Spanish league, we should all aspire to be Barcelona...why?
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Yes, fair point, Smart.

The possession and passing accuracy stats for Spanish (and before them Italian) teams have been skewed by their tendency to retain the ball in midfield or defensive areas whereas English teams have been more ambitious, predominantly, looking to get forward quicker and play riskier passes. The stats have often been used to make claims of superiority for La Liga (and before it Serie A).

The fact that the PL can match the passing stats, despite adopting our style, speaks volumes about the quality of the teams. And we all know that even if the PL is more "up and at 'em", we have many of the world's most skilful players here.
 
notsosmartspur said:
I don't agree, for example the passing accuracy, I read weekly how inferior we are to the Spanish league, we should all aspire to be Barcelona...why?
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If everyone played like Barcelona i'd be shot of football. Its just my personal taste but i find them so boring to watch. I loved seeing Bayern (who i actually enjoy watching) teach them a lesson.
 
Spurm said:
If everyone played like Barcelona i'd be shot of football. Its just my personal taste but i find them so boring to watch. I loved seeing Bayern (who i actually enjoy watching) teach them a lesson.
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I always thought i was alone. they drive me potty. Bayern are way better to watch.
 
I'm sorry DL, but your argument seems to be that Real and Barca have a load of cash and a massive influence on UEFA, plus they add a ton of value to players' sponsorship deals, so they're good.
Bayern are run well and they're a financial giant and Dortmund have recovered brilliantly from financial collapse.

Once you get past those sides though, I'm not sure how you've got their leagues ahead of the PL.
The Bundesliga's equivalent to Spurs were Freiburg, who amassed 21 fewer points in 4 less games and feature... well, nobody really.
6th place Frankfurt don't have a single player of note, either.

The top sides in those divisions aren't just better than everyone else, they're absolutely miles ahead.
 
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