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KingHotspur said:
If managers didn’t matter then why do clubs change them so much when things go wrong as surely by your logic, it wouldn’t make sense to sack someone and then appoint someone else as the outcome will be the same?
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That's generally the case, yes. However there is some evidence that a very small number of managers or coaches do actually make a difference (eg Clough, Ferguson, Wenger).
So the right strategy might be to change managers often in the hope you eventually get one of the few good ones.
Even if that is the case you need to give managers a fair amount of time to make sure you've not already got one of the good ones and even then whatever edge they have might not last. For example I think Wenger's early success was due to him being an early adopter of player data analysis. Once everyone else had those tools he stopped overperforming.
Anyway, if you think the data show that Klopp and Guardiola are doing better than expected, given the wealth of their clubs, feel free to publish it.
 
Another disgraceful refereeing display at Klanfield last night, with yet another embarrassing penalty and 3 points gifted to Varpool. It is criminal how many extra undeserved points that rain down on Varpool year on year, courtesy of the officials. It they somehow sneaked into the back door of the CL (unlikely), it will be purely down to refereeing bias.
 
PowerSpurs said:
Anyway, if you think the data show that Klopp and Guardiola are doing better than expected, given the wealth of their clubs, feel free to publish it.
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During the Klopp era, the Poool have :

1. PL

although not being PL#2 in terms of revenue,
they have finished no lower than 2nd on three
occasions, with pts totals > 90, winning the PL once.

2. CL

reached the CL final 3 times. That is a rate that
no PL era manager is even close to (you have
to go back to the halcyon era of pre-Heysel to
have comparative managers) .


On the above basis I would contend that this
is highly unlikely to be pure chance.
 
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Klopp’s a phenomenal manager but just a Grade A prick. Both Dortmund and Pool have enjoyed great success under him after toppling the money giants of their league’s.

Pep’s works with practically unlimited resources but he plays a brand of football that’s porn worthy. Often delivers too, especially domestically.

Big Sam’s a Don who instils the dog in teams. Every team managed by him generally becomes tough to beat.

All three got skills the others don’t. Depending on where your club is at in terms of finances and stature, each would have reasons to be the preferred pick.
 
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Dier Hard said:
Klopp’s a phenomenal manager but just a Grade A prick. Both Dortmund and Pool have enjoyed great success under him after toppling the money giants of their league’s.

Pep’s works with practically unlimited resources but he plays a brand of football that’s porn worthy. Often delivers too, especially domestically.

Big Sam’s a Don who instils the dog in teams. Every team managed by him generally becomes tough to beat.

All three got skills the others don’t. Depending on where your club is at in terms of finances and stature, each would have reasons to be the preferred pick.
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Spot on. They offer different things. Big Sam is the better option than the other two to take on Leeds with 4 games left.
I doubt any could do what Clough did with two bottom half tier two clubs with no history and moderate support, but the game has changed beyond recognition.
Clough is the best proof that a manager can make a huge difference - and turn ordinary players and teams into world beaters in a short space of time.
 
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