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Diego said:
It's not, it is because they have had some very good players but are a small club (relatively).
Trust me, if clubs bigger than yourselves really start to come after your players you will lose some. No club is immune to this its just that Southampton are lower down the food chain and have been fortunate/unfortunate enough to have had players good enough to attract teams higher than them.
Spurs are quite high up that chain so only have to worry about a small number of clubs but, as was seen last year with Neymar, no team is safe.
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I think that you're both right.
If teams come in with big money and are massive clubs, then virtually everyone will struggle to keep their players.
Southampton have been in a bad position because they've produced good players and can't afford to keep them.

So what can they do? Most of what they're doing is right, but they need to address two things.
The first is the manager, which we basically ****ed them on, though they did some damage there themselves.
Having a coach that the players believe in and think will improve them and and the club is massive.
Shifting out Cortese cost them Pochettino and they also messed up by sacking Puel, in my opinion.

The second is playing hardball with teams that come in for their best players, up to a point.
Selling van Dijk for £75m is good business. Do it when you've got a suitable replacement and there's no problem.
Timing is everything and planning these things out makes a massive difference.
Their impressive academy makes this even easier.
 
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Citizen Kane said:
It's a recruitment problem. Soton actually spend most of the money they take in (not including the truckload of dosh for Van dick which they are yet to really dip into), and seem happy to make a modest net profit on player sales. It is the totally naiive expectation that it'll work out fine to continually sell our best 2-3 players at the first sign of trouble as we'll just replace them every year. All it does is create an atmosphere of a stepping stone club. Players join Soton and put pen to paper on a 5 year contract knowing they'll easily force through a move away after 1 or 2 seasons. They aren't playing for the badge, they're playing for themselves. This is abundantly clear when you look at the farcical chain reactions that litter their transfer dealings. Here's them at CB:
14/15: sell lovren
15/16: buy van dijk
16/17: sell fonte
17/18: buy hoedt
17/18: sell van dijk

The way they approach transfers and managers means it is impossible to build any sort of stability or continuity. Every season they press the reset button. Sometimes they get lucky with the manager and the lesser-known replacements of the outgoing players; most of the time - they don't.
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And at the moment the player they are missing most is Pelle.
 
KingHotspur said:
Their constant turnover of managers doesn’t help them either.

If Poch leaves Spurs then we could easily see a mass exodus of our top players.

If Saints can get a good manager and keep hold of him then I think they would end up less likely to lose their top players but unfortunately bar 4/5 clubs then everyone has to worry about someone coming in for stars.
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It's a very good point. Having good owners, manager and staff at a club can maintain player loyalty far more than when there's a revolving door policy above. In the last 5 years, Cortese left to be replaced by Leibherr's daughter, who then sold to a Chinese. Mauricio Pochettino replaced Adkins, then Koeman, Puel and Pellegrino. There's no stability or meaningful direction and your team mates keep leaving. The club's lost its direction.
 
"Thanks for that Brian" said:
It's a very good point. Having good owners, manager and staff at a club can maintain player loyalty far more than when there's a revolving door policy above. In the last 5 years, Cortese left to be replaced by Leibherr's daughter, who then sold to a Chinese. Mauricio Pochettino replaced Adkins, then Koeman, Puel and Pellegrino. There's no stability or meaningful direction and your team mates keep leaving. The club's lost its direction.
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For me that is the biggest problem. Puel got them to 8th and should never have been shown the door so soon, Koeman and Poch were poached so not much they could do about that, Adkins had lost his way a little bit but they jumped too soon looking for glory on top of the things he had give them, Pellegrino is not up to it and had to go. So, some self inflicted some just tough **** like most clubs.
 
"Thanks for that Brian" said:
It's a very good point. Having good owners, manager and staff at a club can maintain player loyalty far more than when there's a revolving door policy above. In the last 5 years, Cortese left to be replaced by Leibherr's daughter, who then sold to a Chinese. Mauricio Pochettino replaced Adkins, then Koeman, Puel and Pellegrino. There's no stability or meaningful direction and your team mates keep leaving. The club's lost its direction.
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Koeman was keeping them ticking over because, like Poch, he had them playing in a system that made the team perform at a level greater than the sums of its parts in spite of losing Lovren, Lallana, Shaw and Lambert one summer and Schneiderlin and Clyne the next.

Puel inherited that system and, for a time, it worked in spite of the additional losses of Mane, Wanyama, Pelle and Fonte - but once the players lost the muscle memory of playing in that system things went downhill, which is why they had a six week run between December and February where they picked up three points from a possible 21 while also picked up six points from 24 in their run-in.

That's happened a few times to other teams, for example in Bilic's first season at West Scam they had a pretty solid defence as they'd been drilled by Allarshyte to have eight men in their area at any given time for a few seasons - but come the second season the muscle memory had evaporated and the sloppy mistakes began.
 
Citizen Kane said:
West Ham - I'd like to set a world record of cock reattachments to an individual groin over the course
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<laugh><laugh>

And I'd say same re Crouchie except he's probably retiring anyway - and Stoke is further to travel for 3 points.... <cheers>
 
Diego said:
So you don't think they buy players to make a profit but wonder at the number of good players they sell
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Correct.
Why this simple statement appears to be causing
you such confusion should be a bigger concern for you.


"What do you think is happening there?"

Several things that are reasonable causes for
those Soton players to perhaps leave.

1. Club stability

a) Ownership

Who was going to own the club ??
What would the new owners strive for ??
What would their relationship be with the manager etc ??

b) Change of manager

Pochettino seemed to establish good rapport/
trust with those players when he was there.
His departure may be caused sufficient FUD
among some that they decided to go elsewhere.


2. Contracts

Perhaps players who join Soton (given the current
performance/status of the club) are getting things such
as release figure or club performance related clauses
in the T+Cs of their contracts, that enables them to
leave under various scenarios.


3. Mercs / unsettling

Standard fare (no need to describe further) .


I suspect the main reasons are 1 and 3.
And perhaps 2 to a lesser degree (but that itself is
a vicious circle waiting to happen) .
 
This is either something to do with the Rolling Stones playing at the Manchester United Stadium (that happens to be in the Old Trafford district of Manchester), the hacks pledging their allegiance to the Portuguese Albert Steptoe, or The FA erecting a monument to celebrate 25 years of bending over to Alex Ferguson no matter how much of a **** he was

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How ****ing bad are Sevilla?
humanbeingincroydon said:
This is either something to do with the Rolling Stones playing at the Manchester United Stadium (that happens to be in the Old Trafford district of Manchester), the hacks pledging their allegiance to the Portuguese Albert Steptoe, or The FA erecting a monument to celebrate 25 years of bending over to Alex Ferguson no matter how much of a **** he was

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It's a pretty good representation of my view of their game tonight. Dog ****. How bad are Sevilla?
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
This is either something to do with the Rolling Stones playing at the Manchester United Stadium (that happens to be in the Old Trafford district of Manchester), the hacks pledging their allegiance to the Portuguese Albert Steptoe, or The FA erecting a monument to celebrate 25 years of bending over to Alex Ferguson no matter how much of a **** he was

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<laugh>
 
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