Yeah sort of. But also - Klopp took over near the start of the 15/16 season so had eight seasons. And in those eight seasons, he only had three good prem years where he challenged for the title. And only in one of those three seasons that Liverpool challenged, was he fortunate enough that City were off it once so he could get that one title. Arteta took over half-way through the 19-20 season so this is his fifth full season. If Arsenal do end up vaguely challenging that will be three seasons out of five that he's challenged which is a far better ratio than Klopp managed. If Arsenal remain miles off it this year, that's still two out of five seasons challenging - similar to Klopp. But Arteta still has three more years after this one yet to win a title and a CL to match Klopp who was (and still is probably) an objectively top notch manager. You can probably fairly discount the first couple of Klopp's years while he got rid of the dross and built the VVD, Mane, Salah squad. Similarly, you could probably fairly discount the first couple of Arteta years while he got rid of his dross and built the Saliba, Odegaard, Saka squad. Maresca and Slot have walked straight into two of the best squads in the world. Doing well in your first season shouldn't be out of the question with the squads they've got. If Maresca and Slot challenge City for quite a few seasons in a row then fair enough, those two are impressive. Doing it once not so much. Ranieri, Conte, Pochettino etc. have shown that having a single very impressive season is not all that hard if you've got very good players as a starting base point. Give Amorim two years and £1bn and I'm worried United will be seriously impressive in 2026/27. Although let's face it, the more great teams we have the better really. Imagine if we had a full tilt race between City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and United. We rarely even have a title race with even just two form teams in it. Imagine if we could get 3-5 form teams in a race. Classic.
Chelsea best squad in the world? You having a laugh. We might have 7 keepers but none of them are a patch on Raya We have millions of defenders, but who of any of our defenders would you have over yours? Caicedo has shown his class this year and fernandes is on a purple patch. Lavia has started well but this is his first full season of playing really. Compared to yours though i'd say your midfield shades it. Saka and Palmer both superstars. If we don't include Saka i would say maybe our wingers shade yours but it's pretty tight. Havertz is a far better forward than Jackson. Jackson has potential and has been good recently but he's still a bit like bambi on skates with his dribbling and touch. We have a lot of players who are all "good" but i don't think a lot of them are nailed on top 4. Caicedo, Palmer carry this team.
I just got done on the Liverpool board saying the same thing. We spent a lot of money on utter ****e. Some of which is starting to come good. Our forward players and midfield are nearly there, but our backline and keeper options suck. We need at least one big CB and GK signing before we will challenge properly. I expect us to finish 4th, or 3rd if Arsenal and/or City keep slipping up.
Klopp 15/16 - (joined in October) - 8th + Europa League & League Cup finalists Klopp 16/17 - 4th place Klopp 17/18 - 4th + Champions League finalist Klopp 18/19 - 2nd + Champions League winners Klopp 19/20 - Premier League champions Klopp 20/21 - 3rd place Klopp 2021/22 - 2nd + FA Cup & League Cup winners + Champions League finalists Klopp 2022/23 - 5th place Klopp 2023/24 - 3rd place + League Cup winners I've not included things like Club World Cup, UEFA Super Cup etc. You can talk about ratios if you want, but the bottom line is, we would all kill for the selection of trophies that Klopp won over that same timespan - even factoring in the 1 or 2 off-seasons they had within that period. I accept that Slot and Maresca had better squads and platforms to build from compared to when Arteta did at Arsenal, but let's not rewrite history. No-one had Chelsea or Liverpool performing as well as they have been. And Maresca inherited a huge mess at Chelsea in the Summer (bloated squad, unhappy players, underperforming high-wage earners etc...) and only had one year of managerial experience in the Championship. Slot wasn't seen as a threat either, especially after no transfer market activity except for Chiesa. Everyone thought it would be between Arsenal and Man City again. City can be forgiven for having an off-season given what they've achieved the last 4-5 years. Arsenal do not have that luxury because we've won nothing. Like I said before, when it's your time, you have to get over the line and win trophies because you never know when your moment will arrive again. Nothing in life is a guarantee, but you can create the best conditions within your power to try. Arsenal never give themselves the best chance of doing this. And this is evidenced by our stuttering season/slight falloff after two successive years of being runners-up. At what point do we begin to question where we're going under Arteta?
We finished 26 points ahead of you last season. If you then finish ahead of us one season later, that is a seriously damning indictment on Arteta's squad building and managerial capabilities. For me, it would be unforgivable. The only way to compensate for something like this happening would be to win the Champions League. But let's be real, with our pitiful record in Europe, not a chance that will happen. So what exactly is there to be excited about this season? It's going to be another self-inflicted mess where we've wasted another opportunity to win a major honour.
We have a better chance of the CL than the PL, but I'm certainly not confident. Nothing in our history would suggest we should be, either. Our European record is genuinely embarrassing. But I do believe we have the talent to go far providing we have a fully fit squad. It would help if we had a stable defence, but our defenders keep getting injured and if that happens during crunch time, we're ****ed.
Don't think you can ever be confidence in the CL as you need some luck along the way. But I would fancy us in a knockout game against most sides.
well, we have been rubbish too. Plus, no rub of the green this year with fortuitous fixture positioning... I can't believe we've had to play: City with Rodri (for a bit at least) and while they were still in form, and do without Trossard for being sent off for something no-else gets sent off for Brighton with Rice sent off for something no-else gets sent off for Spurs away without Rice because he was suspended for something no-one else gets sent off for Bournemouth away without Saliba because he got sent off for something loads of others don't get sent off for Liverpool without Saliba because he was banned by a Liverpool-supporting VAR and Odegaard or half a fit defence for most of the game United with a proper manager in place
Whilst I accept we have been poor too, even if all of these reasons were valid (and some them are), I'd prefer to look at situations within our control where we could and should have done better. Even after having 10-men against Brighton, we had three excellent chances from Havertz, Saka and Martinelli to win the game. They all fluffed their lines. The Havertz one was a shocker and if we'd signed a proper 9, we leave that game with 3 points. Bournemouth away, we were poor even before Saliba gets sent off. And whilst him going off impacted the game, there was no guarantee we'd have won with him on. Even when we were down to 10 in this game, Martinelli was gifted a chance on a plate for a 1v1, and he spurned it. 60 seconds later, Bournemouth go up the other end and score. So we could have nicked this game if our forwards could finish, albeit it would have been undeserved. Newcastle away, we were absolutely dreadful. Chelsea away, after going 1-0 up, we completely sat off and dropped our midfield and defensive lines. That allowed Neto to have acres of space to run into and get the equaliser. A draw away at Chelsea isn't a bad result in isolation, but I felt we had to win to make up for our previous results. Then Fulham away, although we did enough in the second half to win (IMO), we basically wasted the first half messing around. It was identical to the Newcastle game. So look, for most of these games, you could argue that the marginal gains didn't go in our favour. However, my issue is we never give ourselves the optimal chance to win the game. Arteta's fielded some very unbalanced sides, didn't adapt with Odegaard's absence, didn't prioritise sorting out our LHS because we have a clear RHS bias when we attack, and also ended up fielding right-footed players in left-sided positions. Yesterday's game against Monaco was probably the first time this season where the LHS dynamics looked good and threatening. And, imagine my shock, it happens when we field left-footed players on the LHS that improves our build-up and doesn't disrupt the passing angles.
No. 27 years old, he's been too inconsistent throughout his career, too patchy and his wages are astronomical. He's been in and around the first-team at Man United since 2016, so coming up to 9 years at the club. And whilst I accept they've had a turnover of managers, the simple fact is, if you're still having consistency and motivational issues after 9 years, then that's not a good sign. We already have two inconsistent left wingers at the moment in Trossard and Martinelli, I'd prefer to not get another one.
can you do a few more posts like that as i'm feeling really ****e atm and could do with a bit more "agreement" .
Some objective facts for you to agree with: Arsenal are the best footballing team in the prem. Liverpool are a one-man team Liverpool have yet to play a single in-form first-choice XI opposition this season
Seeing Chelsea usurp us in the league, play exciting football and get good results makes me physically sick. They remind me of us in 2022/23. I hate it here so much. I can't believe what I'm having to watch us become while other teams overtake us.
