Right to Die

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Toby. said:
Children are born with an incredible ability to learn, through copying what they see/hear/... from the world around them. It is even argued that we are genetically programmed to learn/develop language (can't remember the name of the guy who came up with the theory, was years ago). How can you think if you have no way of structuring it?
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You can structure thoughts without language, you just can't communicate them well with other people.
If you want to think of an action, object or colour without using the word for any of those things, then it's easy to do so, isn't it?
Language probably allows us to think in a far more articulate manner, but it's clearly not a requirement for thought.
 
To answer the original OP, sorry but seven pages of comments is to much to look back on.

Without going into the moral arguments. I understand why the High Court today found against the persons right to die. The problem is that as soon as you agree to such an appeal, you then set a test case example, that in turn then becomes a legal case for any future appeals/decisions. Every case has to be judged solely on its own individual circumstances, however, I believe, unless there is something in law that prevents any decision being used as a test case for future legal wrangles, then the decision time and time again will have to be no in the UK. Do I care whether this guy lives or dies, to be honest, not one bit, that is his choice. Except that his choice should not be the influence of future choices.
 
Toby.:3306504 said:
Mind The Step said:
Basically Toby thinks that there should be a "solution" to a problem facing "fathers" who have no "living space" for unwanted persons who "take all their money"

Schmuck
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[video=youtube;bOdpX6dcrU4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOdpX6dcrU4[/video]
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Do you get all your "jokes" from Michael MacIntyre?
 
Jip, I have no idea whether you believe conception to mean that as the point where life begins or not. Perhaps you could clear that up?
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
You can structure thoughts without language, you just can't communicate them well with other people.
If you want to think of an action, object or colour without using the word for any of those things, then it's easy to do so, isn't it?
Language probably allows us to think in a far more articulate manner, but it's clearly not a requirement for thought.
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It was a terrible argument. You are very polite to give it credence.
 
Sorry BRB, but I don't understand your point.
You're saying that he has to be turned down, because otherwise it sets a precedent for other cases and that shouldn't be allowed.
Why not?
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Sorry BRB, but I don't understand your point.
You're saying that he has to be turned down, because otherwise it sets a precedent for other cases and that shouldn't be allowed.
Why not?
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The High Court cannot say that, but my bias interpretation reading between the lines it is what is being said. As soon as this guy is granted his wish, then the flood gates will open and his case will be used for all future legal arguments. People within time will then attempt to manipulate these rulings with in decades to come, not in my lifetime but it will happen. In the same way we don't give a **** about our elderly in some care homes, we will see a wanton list of legalised public executions. Europe in my opinion is a mirror image to a certain degree of Hitler's dream 'one state' - all we need to do next is legalise the gas chambers. Ok, all far exaggerated by me but not far from the truth of reality of the route every legalised issue becomes.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Er, little worried about old age, BRB?
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Strange response.

Sadly you don't know me, otherwise you would realise that is further from the truth than you could ever imagine, you asked me a question and I gave you an honest open minded answer. If you feel the need to make a closed mind judgement then I will not answer the questions.
 
Toby. said:
Let's not get involved with the whole 'evolutionary instincts' thing, as a species we have risen above that (I'm not saying it's not true, but our intelligence allows us to make decisions that trump those instincts).

I want to be a father, but I also want my children to be happy and enjoy their lives. The 2nd part is why I haven't had children yet.
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I don't believe for a second that we have significantly risen above our mammalian origins to become some sort of super species - sure we have lots of individuals with individual intelligence, but when it comes to morals and ethics we behave like packs - by enlarge taking what we believe is right or wrong from the other humans we surround ourselves with. How would you explain such ethical embarrassments as the Holocaust or ethnic cleansing in Africa and Eastern Europe without wondering about the human mind's ability to think for itself and not follow pack-like animalistic instincts?

Indeed all you would have to do is look at the people around you all the time to see how utterly unconcerned the majority are over reaching some higher level of consciousness - I am hungry let's go to McDonalds, I am bored lets watch a Movie, I am anxious that brown foreign guy in work is earning less than me and doing a better job - while we do appear smarter than every other animal we have thus far come across we still live day to day following our basic mammalian wants and needs.

As an atheist, without a big chief in the sky to tell me how I should live my life properly, the best I can come up with is the most instinctively pure of human drivers - I look out for my own mini clan (family), I empathise with other humans who appear in trouble (I'm pretty sure this is also an evolutionary feeling - help fellow members of your own species and all that), I try my best to continue to exist in the safest most comfortable way possible, and I try to protect the weakest members of my species.
 
MalteseMick said:
I don't believe for a second that we have significantly risen above our mammalian origins to become some sort of super species - sure we have lots of individuals with individual intelligence, but when it comes to morals and ethics we behave like packs - by enlarge taking what we believe is right or wrong from the other humans we surround ourselves with. How would you explain such ethical embarrassments as the Holocaust or ethnic cleansing in Africa and Eastern Europe without wondering about the human mind's ability to think for itself and not follow pack-like animalistic instincts?

Indeed all you would have to do is look at the people around you all the time to see how utterly unconcerned the majority are over reaching some higher level of consciousness - I am hungry let's go to McDonalds, I am bored lets watch a Movie, I am anxious that brown foreign guy in work is earning less than me and doing a better job - while we do appear smarter than every other animal we have thus far come across we still live day to day following our basic mammalian wants and needs.

As an atheist, without a big chief in the sky to tell me how I should live my life properly, the best I can come up with is the most instinctively pure of human drivers - I look out for my own mini clan (family), I empathise with other humans who appear in trouble (I'm pretty sure this is also an evolutionary feeling - help fellow members of your own species and all that), I try my best to continue to exist in the safest most comfortable way possible, and I try protect the weakest members of my species.
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I just wanted to quote Mick before he got to his spelling mistakes....I know he loves that.
 
brb said:
Strange response.

Sadly you don't know me, otherwise you would realise that is further from the truth than you could ever imagine, you asked me a question and I gave you an honest open minded answer. If you feel the need to make a closed mind judgement then I will not answer the questions.
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Sorry BRB, but I failed to see the connection between legalising voluntary euthanasia for those with a debilitating illness and Nazi-esque deathcamps hosting public executions.
Seems like a bit of a reach, to me.

No offence meant.
 
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